Farmer of Thoughts

Border Restrictions

2007-10-30T13:13:00.000-07:00

It's all about stomping out dissent. Not to mention discouraging movement, actual tourism, exploring, freedom of travel and our beaten to damn near DEATH civil rights. People ... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Read this carefully. There's more here than meets the eye although Col. Ann Wright does a good job exposing the border regulations of the BUSH WORLD for what they are.

I've been told by those in the know that if one makes it TO Canada, one may not be able to come back. It's all coming to a head here shortly, of course. Frankly, who would CARE? NO ONE should be allowed to tell another human where to live out the span of their life. They want to keep you in the same place so that they can move about freely. Trafficking humans and etc.....

Please read all of this.

Banned From Canada for a Year for War Protest
By Ann Wright
Tuesday 30 October 2007

The invitation said six members of the Canadian Parliament were to speak October 25 on Canada's Parliament Hill as members of a panel called "Peacebuilders Without Borders: Challenging the Post-9/11 Canada-US Security Agenda." I arrived at the Ottawa airport on the morning of October 25 expecting to be met by three members of Parliament and to hold a press conference at the airport.

Medea Benjamin, co-founder of Codepink Women for Peace and Global Exchange, was also invited by the Parliamentarians, but had been arrested the previous day for holding up two fingers in the form of a peace sign during the US House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs hearing in which Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice testified on Iraq, Iran and Israel-Palestinian issues. The October 24 committee hearing began with Codepink peace activist Desiree Fairooz holding up her red, paint-stained hands to Rice and shouting, "The blood of millions of Iraqis is on your hands." As Capitol Hill police took her out of the House hearing, Fairooz yelled over her shoulder, "War criminal, take her to the Hague." Shortly thereafter, two Codepinkers were arrested for just being in the room, and brutally hauled out of the hearing by Capitol police. An hour later, Medea and a male Codepinker were arrested for no reason. Four of the five had to stay overnight in the District of Columbia jail; Medea was one of those and missed the trip to Ottawa.

I presented immigration officials our letter of invitation from the Parliamentarians that explained Medea and I had been denied entry to Canada at the Niagara Falls border crossing on October 3, 2007, because we had been convicted in the United States of peaceful, non-violent protests against the war on Iraq, including sitting on the sidewalk in front of the White House with 400 others, speaking out against torture during Congressional hearings, and other misdemeanors. The Canadian government knew of these offenses as they now have access to the FBI's National Crime Information database on which we are listed. The database was created to identify members of violent gangs and terrorist organizations, foreign fugitives, patrol violators and sex offenders - not for peace activists peacefully protesting illegal actions of their government.

The immigration officer directed me to a secondary screening, where my request to call the members of Parliament waiting outside the customs' doors was denied. My suggestion that the letter of invitation from the Parliamentarians might be valuable in accessing the need for me to be in Canada was dismissed with the comment that members of Parliament do not have a role in determining who enters Canada. I suggested the laws enacted by the Parliament were the basis of that determination. I added that the reason I had been invited to Ottawa by Parliamentarian was to be an example of how current laws may exclude those whom Canadians may wish to allow to enter. I also mentioned Parliament might decide to change the laws immigration officials implement. I also suggested, since the Parliament provides the budget to the Immigration Services, they might notify the Parliamentarians awaiting my arrival that I had been detained. The officers declined to do so citing my privacy, which I immediately waived. The Parliamentarians were never notified by immigration I had arrived and was being detained. Only when my cell phone was returned to me by immigration officers four hours later was I able to make contact with the Parliamentarians.

After nearly four hours of interrogation, I was told by the senior immigration officer I was banned from Canada for one year for failure to provide appropriate documents that would overcome the exclusion order I had been given in early October because of conviction of misdemeanors (all payable by fines) in the United States. The officer said that to apply for a Temporary Resident Permit (TRP) for entry for a specific event on a specific date, I must provide to a Canadian Embassy or consulate the arresting officer's report, court transcripts and court documents for each of the convictions, an official document describing the termination of sentences, a police certificate issued within the last three months by the FBI, police certificates from places I have lived in the past ten years (that includes Sierra Leone, Micronesia, Afghanistan and Mongolia), a letter acknowledging my convictions from three respected members of the community (the respected members that I will ask to write a letter all been convicted of similar "offenses") and a completed 18 page "criminal rehabilitation" packet.

Additionally, besides obtaining the TRP, since I was being banned for a year from Canada, I would have to obtain a "Canadian Government Minister's consent." The officer said the TRP and the Minister's consent normally took from 8-10 months to obtain. In the distant future, to be able to enter Canada without a TRP, I would have to be "criminally rehabilitated" and be free for five years of conviction of any offense, including for peaceful protest.

The senior immigration officer took my fingerprints for Canadian records, escorted me to the airport departures area and placed me on the first plane departing for Washington, DC. In the meantime, the members of Parliament conducted the press conference and the panel without my presence, but certainly using the example of what had happened to me, and previously to Medea Benjamin, as incidents that the Parliamentarians are very concerned about, specifically their government's wholesale acceptance of information on the FBI's database, information that appears to have been placed there for political intimidation.

A participant on the Parliamentary panel I was unable to attend was Monia Mazigh, the wife of Canadian citizen Maher Arar, who, when he transited New York's JFK airport, was sent by US authorities to Syria where he was imprisoned and tortured for 10 months. The day before I arrived at the Ottawa airport, Rice acknowledged the United States had "not handled his case properly." But Rice did not apologize to Arar on behalf of the Bush administration during testimony to the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee. The previous week during a video conference, both Republican and Democrat members of Congress offered apologies to Arar. Arar, an Ottawa telecommunications engineer, still has a lawsuit pending against American officials. Arguments are scheduled for November 9 in New York.

Many countries have succumbed to the behind-the-scenes, 9/11 pressure of the Bush administration to enact extensive and expansive anti-terrorism laws to increase "harmonization" and integration of security measures among countries. Unfortunately, the Canadian government is mirroring the Bush administration's use of security measures to increase control over dissent in their country - and in other countries. Most of the new security measures are done through administrative agreements, international joint working groups, regulations and the use of international organizations such as the G-8 and the International Civil Aviation Organization. By using administrative regulations, the US and Canadian governments avoid opening up the proposed restrictions of personal privacy to public scrutiny and debate by preventing such regulations from being enacted in the Congress or Parliament.

Through these agreements with Canada and other G-8 countries, the Bush administration is setting up a global infrastructure for the registration and surveillance of populations worldwide, looking at every person as a suspect and a risk, whom must, in their opinion, as a precaution, be identified and tracked. Ordinary legal protections fundamental to democratic societies such as the presumption of innocence, rights against unreasonable search and seizure and rights against arbitrary detention and punishment are greatly threatened by these precautionary measures.

Countries are accepting the "precautionary principle" and are gathering and sharing information not only to track suspected "terrorists," but to stop dissidents from flying and/or entering other countries, to stop activists and intellectuals at borders, - the Bush administration has refused visas for numerous academics from all over the world who have been invited to teach at American universities, but whom have spoken and written against the Bush war in Iraq, torture. and other violations of international law - to detain persons without reasonable grounds and to send persons to third world countries and prisons operated by the US government, where they are detained indefinitely without charge, tortured and sometimes murdered.

The Canada-US Smart Border Agreement and Action Plan, an administrative agreement signed in December 2001, is the master document for security integration between Canada and the United States. The agreement calls for biometric standards for identity cards, coordinated visa and refugee policy, coordinated risk assessment of travelers, integrated border and marine enforcement teams, integrated national security intelligence teams, coordinated terrorist lists, increased intelligence sharing and joint efforts to promote the Canada-US model internationally.

After 9/11, the Bush administration, under the National Security Entry-exit Registration System (NSEERS), registered and took biometric identifiers (fingerprints) of all males age 16-45 with links to Muslim and Arab countries visiting or traveling though the United States. Next, persons applying for visas to visit the United States had to submit biometric data (fingerprints) that will be stored in a US database for 100 years through the new US Visitor and Immigrant Status Indication Technology (US-VISIT) program.

The Bush administration expanded its biometric round-up on a global scale in 2002 by requiring all countries that want to retain their visa waiver status with the US to require, by 2004, biometric passports through the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act of 2002. In 2004, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) set a face recognition standard with fingerprint and iris scans as optional standards. Beginning in 2005, the United States and Canada have biometric passports with facial recognition.

We all want our countries to be safe from criminal actions. However, the unnecessary curtailment of civil liberties and purposeful targeting of those who disagree with government policies must end.

I call on the US Congress to conduct hearings to determine who ordered the FBI to place peaceful, non-violence protest convictions on the international data base, and for what purpose.

It feels to me like purposeful intimidation to stop dissent - but I can guarantee you, it won't work!

To all those concerned about free speech, freedom to travel, ending an illegal war, stopping torture, and other violations of domestic and international law, come to Washington and help us!!!

(For more extensive information on security agreements that unnecessarily jeopardize our civil liberties, please see "Americanizing the Restriction of Canadians' Rights - Security Overtaking Trade as a Driver of 'Deep Integration'," by Maureen Webb, Canadian centre for Policy Alternatives.)

--------

Ann Wright is a 29-year US Army veteran who retired as a Colonel, and a former US diplomat who resigned in March, 2003, in opposition to the war on Iraq. She served in Nicaragua, Grenada, Somalia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Sierra Leone, Micronesia and Mongolia. In December, 2001, she was on the small team that reopened the US Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan. The US Department of State has delayed publication of her new book, "Dissent: Voices of Conscience," for over three months. It will be published whenever the State Department finishes its search for classified materials.

-------

firefighter marijuana grow op

2007-06-28T13:32:00.000-07:00

Marijuana grow-op busted, firefighter arrested
Last Updated: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:15 AM PT
CBC News
A veteran Vancouver firefighter has been arrested in connection with a marijuana grow-op near an elementary school in suburban North Delta.
Police seized 380 marijuana plants after searching a home in the 9100 block of 112th Street last Thursday. Annieville Elementary School is on the next block.
Police say they discovered hundreds of marijuana plants in this house in North Delta.(CBC)
They say the plants and equipment in the home were worth about $140,000.
A 44-year-old man was arrested and later released on a promise to appear in court.
No charges have been laid, but police say they are recommending charges of production of a controlled substance and possession of a controlled substance for the purpose of trafficking.
The suspect, a firefighter with 24 years on the job, is expected to appear in court this week.
Continue Article
// ');
// ]]>

A spokesman for the Vancouver fire department says the arrest comes as a complete surprise.
Capt. Rob Jones-Cook also told CBC News he hopes the drug arrest won't tarnish the department's reputation.
"We want to be shown, of course, in a positive light and this does not help that quest at all. It is an allegation at this point, and should it be true, then appropriate action would be taken at the conclusion of any court case that may arise from this."
Jones-Cook noted Vancouver firefighters routinely tear down grow-ops, as they're considered a major fire hazard.
/* */
Related
Internal Links
IN DEPTH: Marijuana grow-ops
MORE BRITISH COLUMBIA HEADLINES »
Explosion, fire leave gaping hole in Penticton
Six businesses burned to the ground Wednesday night in downtown Penticton, after an explosion rocked the B.C. city. However, there were no injuries.
Women learn self-defence against violent attacks
Vancouver Rape Relief held a rally to teach women how to defend themselves after a spate of violent attacks on Asian women in East Vancouver.
Venue development budget for Vancouver Olympics on track, committee says
The overall venue development budget for the 2010 Winter Olympics is unchanged at $580 million, the Vancouver Organizing Committee reported Thursday.
Ottawa fails to make good on AIDS combat: B.C. specialist
A leading AIDS specialist is accusing Ottawa of not doing enough to fight the global pandemic that's quickly moved through Africa, Asia and now to Vancouver's downtown eastside.
Riverbend developer loses licence for 5 years
The Homeowners Protection Office has pulled the licence of a Vancouver development company that had cancelled pre-sale agreements with 32 people because of financial problems.
Canada Features

YOUR INTERVIEWDr. William Feldman
How to take control of your health

JUSTICEConrad Black
Charges at a glance
Correspondent chat

ABORIGINALAction day
Ottawa blog
Larry Zolf on Harper's plan

KANDAHAR DISPATCHMellissa Fung
Quick and the dead

THE IDEAS GUYRichard Handler
We have met the enemy and it is global warming
Blog Watch
Most Blogged about CBC.ca Articles
Canada's great classical actor William Hutt dies at 87
Timbits used in drive-by harassment: RCMP
Canadian pro wrestler killed family then himself: police
Full list of articles »
Search Technorati
Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites - link will open in new window
/* */

State Raises Poker Stakes

2007-06-15T09:28:00.000-07:00

State raises poker stakes

Come July 1, players can make bigger bets at parimutuel facilities.

By Scott Long, Times Staff Writer
Published June 15, 2007
Jim Rising (left) and Allen Lechner play poker in the crowded card room at Derby Lane. Small-stakes poker is being credited with saving dog and horse tracks from continually declining profits.
photo

[Times photo: David Zentz]
ADVERTISEMENT
Click to learn more...
photo
[iStockphoto.com]
While betting limits will jump to $5 from $2 in poker games with betting limits, one of the biggest changes is that "no limit" Texas Hold'em - the game popularized by TV shows such as World Poker Tour - is now allowed.
Business News Video

Poker stakes are going up in Florida.

Gov. Charlie Crist allowed Senate Bill 752 to become law on Wednesday without his signature, and the changes that take effect July 1 amount to the biggest expansion of poker in the state since betting limits were raised to $2 four years ago.

"Wonderful," Dick Ouellette of Lakeland said after learning the state will begin allowing bets up to $5 at rooms run by licensed parimutuel facilities. Casinos he visits in Las Vegas, Mississippi and Connecticut allow bets of $5 or higher and it's about time Florida upped the cap, he said.

"I thought that it was important that the Legislature had adopted it," Crist said. "You know, I'm not a big fan of gambling, so I thought it was appropriate to respect their work and let it become law."

The changes please David Tiano, chief operations officer at Derby Lane in St. Petersburg.

"We're going to offer similar to what we offer now, and expand other offerings based on the limits," he said.

While betting limits will jump to $5 from $2 in poker games with betting limits, one of the biggest changes is that "no limit" Texas Hold'em - the game popularized by TV shows such as World Poker Tour - is now allowed. Players may buy $100 in chips, but with no limit to how much they can win, they could soon be vying for pots worth hundreds of dollars.

"The $1-$2 no-limit is going to be the popular one," said Patrick Murphy, manager of Tampa Bay Downs' Silks Card Room in Oldsmar, which will move to the track's clubhouse from its smaller grandstand location.

Rules for tournaments, which have been contentious between card rooms and the state in the past, are spelled out in the bill and entry fees will escalate. Sam Minutello, who runs the One-Eyed Jacks card room at Sarasota Kennel Club, says his room will offer $225 qualifiers for the World Series of Poker early next month.

For Greg Geylon, vice president of finance at Tampa Bay Downs, the law means his room will be allowed to reopen July 1.

"It's good for all the workers," said Geylon, whose room was allowed to open only on live racing days, meaning a sporadic schedule between December and May and fewer employees.

"Every year when the season is over," he said, "I feel really bad when I see all the dealers and cocktail waitresses and bartenders and I say 'if you're still around in December, we'd love to have you back.' Now, with being open year-round, if they work the minimum number of hours, they'll be able to get health insurance."

Derby Lane will reopen its poker room on Sundays.

"We raced seven days a week, but it became a strain on our facility and employees," Tiano said. "But now that we can just open the poker room and the simulcast operations, we know we can run an efficient operation and won't have that strain."

Gambling rules at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casino are set by the Seminole Tribe's gaming commission, which hasn't addressed raising the betting limit, said John Fontana, president of the Tampa facility.

"But we always want to be able to have the greatest array of offerings," he said.

Fast Facts:

Here's the deal
What Senate Bill 752 changes for licensed card rooms in Florida:
- Betting limits increase to $5 from $2 in limit poker games.
- Allows "no limit" Texas Hold'em cash games, but players can't be required to buy any more than $100 in chips.
- Allows for higher buy-in tournaments.
- Allows card rooms to open on nonracing days.
- Allows jackpots and other giveaways.
- Increases the fee that card rooms must pay to license poker tables.

Times staff writers Steve Huettel and Steve Bousquet contributed to this report. Times staff writer Scott Long can be reached at long@sptimes.com or (727) 893-8556.

[Last modified June 14, 2007, 23:07:50]

Comments on this article
by voxpop 06/15/07 10:51 AM
I LOVE how they carefully avoid any discussion of the TAMPA DOG TRACK where my property is now worth OHhhhh MILLIONS. Could that be why the city is trying so hard to chase me OUT of it for NOTHING?? Meanies !! Cheaters !!! CROOKS!!!!! CONMEN!!!!!!!!!

Spontaneous combustion in tampa

2007-05-14T15:22:00.001-07:00

Family Finder:

Wauchula High School

By Spessard Stone

The predecessor of today’s Hardee County High School originated on August 4, 1903 when the school on South 8th Avenue and Bay Street, Wauchula, which had built by the Masons in 1895 and consisted of a two-story frame building with the school on the ground floor and the Masonic Hall above, became a county high school. The first commencement class, consisting of three girls and one boy, graduated from Wauchula High School on March 20, 1906. (1)

In 1909 a new brick building, which faced east on the corner of West Oak Street and North Seventh Avenue, was constructed and housed all grades, including the Wauchula High School. In 1915 the west wing of the high school was opened. (2)

The Tampa Morning Tribune of January 7, 1915 reported:

New High School

“Wauchula, Jan. 6, 1915--Monday the contractors turned the new school building over to the County Board, which was accepted.

“Prearrangements having been made for a short dedicatory service, a large crowd of the patrons assembled on the grounds at 9 o'clock (and) were escorted through the building after which they assembled on the east front of the old building where Prof. Shaver introduced architect of the building, Long, Chairman of the Board of Trustees, Dr. Wright and member of County Board Mr. Hogan, who made short talks.

“The contractors Marshall & Sanders of Lakeland were congratulated by the patrons for the manner in which they completed the job.”

The Tampa Morning Tribune of January 8, 1915 further noted:

Wauchula High School

“Wauchula, Jan. 7---The Wauchula High School resumed work Monday morning after a fortnight for Christmas vacation. There were a number of new pupils and two new teachers. The faculty now consists of twenty-one able teachers. A crowd of patrons attended the opening as it was an auspicious day in the history of the school.

“Architect Long turned over to the trustees the keys of the handsome new $15,000 school building.”

In the spring of 1926 a new two-story red brick $50,000 high school, bounded by Bay Street on the north, west by Dixie Highway and east by 11 Avenue, was opened. It burned in 1945. (3) In the late 1930s or early 1940s the school’s name was changed to Hardee County High School.

The Florida Advocate (Wauchula, Fla.) of Friday, April 27, 1945 reported of the fire on April 20, 1945 which burned the school at the southeast corner of Bay Street and Florida Avenue :

High School Completely Gutted

“Fire of unknown origin destroyed the Hardee County High School building in Wauchula on last Friday morning, the county sustaining a loss of approximately $150,000. The building was gutted and the entire contents, including school books, library and all equipment, were destroyed.

“The alarm was turned in about 10:40 and the fire department responded promptly but the fire had gained such headway that the one engine was unable to do any effective work.

“Chief Peeples stated that when he arrived on the scene he realized that his department would be unable to handle it and calls were placed summoning help from Fort Meade, Avon Park and Arcadia, but even when help arrived hose was hurriedly hooked up with the fire hydrants and some nine lines were playing streams on the fire.

“Wauchula's engine broke down shortly after it arrived and was unable to take part in fighting the fire.

“Local volunteer fireman worked like Trojans fighting the fire but the heat was so severe they had to retire.

“The arrival of the fire fighting apparatus from the neighboring cities kept the fire confined in the building; there being no wind, none of the nearby residents were seriously threatened.

“All of the records of students who have graduated since the building was erected in 1925 were in the vault in the building and it is not known whether or not they were destroyed as the vault has not been opened; the authorities were waiting for the vault to cool.

“It is not known what part of the building the fire started and the fire chief states the entire building was filled with smoke when he arrived, but it is believed to have originated on the first floor near the center of the building. It might have been caused by defective wiring or spontaneous combustion.

“The building cost approximately $65,000 and with the equipment and additions the loss is conservatively estimated at $150,000 with only $20,000 insurance.

“The walls left standing were dynamited and torn down Friday afternoon and Saturday morning by the county authorities. The building was destroyed just a week before the new term was scheduled to start April 26.

“The county school board, which was in session on the morning of the fire, met again in the afternoon and discussed plans and arrangements to carry on the high school.

Plans For 1945-46 Term

“As the county is fortunate in that an ample high school building is located at Zolfo Springs, the school board passed a resolution authorizing County Superintendent Blackburn to immediately contact the trustees of the Zolfo Springs school district and secure permission from them for the use of the Zolfo Springs school building to house the county high school for the 1945-46 school term.”

The newly constructed Hardee High School on Florida Avenue, Wauchula, opened in the fall of 1949. The first graduating class was in 1950. (4)

A new high school, located at 830 Altman Road, Wauchula, was opened in 1981. The former site on Florida Avenue became the home for Hardee Junior High. (5)

Endnotes

(1) Margaret Stringer, Watch Wauchula Win, 1979, pages 70-72.

(2) Ibid, pages 73-74.

(3) Ibid, page 77.

(4) Edward Terrell to Sue Bryan Jackson, e-mail by Jackson to author, May 24, 2001. Edward Terrell was a member of this class.

(5) Hardee Senior High School Web Site, 2001.

May 25, 2001
Census Records | Vital Records | Family Trees & Communities | Immigration Records | Military Records
Directories & Member Lists | Family & Local Histories | Newspapers & Periodicals | Court, Land & Probate | Finding Aids

ACLU Says Crist's Plan To Restore Felons' Rights Falls Short

2007-04-24T15:21:00.000-07:00

ACLU Says Crist's Plan To Restore Felons' Rights Falls Short

TALLAHASSEE, FL - The American Civil Liberties Union has expressed disappointment with the announcement by Florida's Governor Charlie Crist and the Board of Executive Clemency regarding Florida's new rules for restoration of civil and voting rights.
Please read the remainder of the article at North Country Gazette. An awesome read from an awesome newspaper.

FreeMasons Phallic Worship

2007-04-14T11:36:00.001-07:00

APPENDIX

Masonic Symbolism

The Masculine Journey

The Legend of Hiram Abiff

MASONIC SYMBOLISM

SOURCE: THE DEADLY DECEPTION

James Shaw & Tom McKenney, Huntington House Inc., Lafayette, LA, 1988, Appendix B, pp. 142-144.

1. THE ULTIMATE DECEPTION

Masonry is, according to its own philosophers, a system of pure religion expressed in symbols, one which cannot be understood without a knowledge of the true meaning of them. This makes a proper understanding of those symbols terribly important. For the Christian Mason, accepting and guarding those symbols and their "secrets" with his physical life at stake, he must understand them to know that he is doing right.

For the many zealous Masons, trusting their obedience to their obligations to gain them entrance into that "Celestial Lodge Above," those for whom "the Lodge is a good enough religion," the correct understanding of these symbols is the key (they believe) to their eternal destiny. They are trusting in the teachings of the Lodge concerning these symbols with their eternal redemption, or damnation, at stake.

Herein lies the most terrible manifestation of Masonic morality, that philosophy of the elite, which makes whatever they do "right" because it is they (the elite) who do it. Having established and taught the sincere but deceived masses of Masons (the Blue Lodge Masons) that everything depends upon their proper understanding of the symbols of Masonry, they have then deliberately deceived them as to the true meaning of those symbols. Hear the arrogant words of Albert Pike, Supreme Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry, that preeminent Masonic authority:

"The Blue Degrees are but the court or portico (porch) of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them… their true explication (explanation and understanding) is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry (those of the 32nd and 33rd Degrees)." (Morals and Dogma, page 819).

2. THE FOUNDATION OF MASONIC SYMBOLISM: PHALLIC WORSHIP

Since the true meaning of Masonic symbols (and thus, the true meaning of Masonry itself) is to be known only by the Prince Adepts of Masonry, we must hear what they say concerning them. They (Albert Pike, Albert Mackey, J. D. Buck, Daniel Sickles and others) teach that Masonry is a revival of the Ancient Mysteries (the mystery religions of Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Rome and Greece).

These Ancient religions had two meanings, or interpretations. One was the apparent (exoteric) meaning, known to the uninitiated, ignorant masses; the other (esoteric) meaning was the true meaning, entirely different, known only to a small, elite group, initiated into their secrets and secret rituals of worship. These mystery religions were forms of nature-worship, more specifically and most commonly the worship of the Sun as source and giver of life to the Earth. Since Ancient times, this worship of the Sun (and of the Moon, stars and of nature in general) has been sexual in its outworkings and rituals. Since the Sun’s rays, penetrating the Earth and bringing about new life, have been central to such worship, the phallus, the male ‘generative principle,’ has been worshipped and the rituals climaxed with sexual union in the mystery religions of Isis and Osiris, Tammuz, Baal, etc. (1) In summary, then, since the Ancient Mysteries (especially those of Egypt) are in fact the Old Religion of which Freemasonry is a revival, the symbols of Masonry should be expected to be phallic in true meaning. This, in very fact, is the case. A thorough treatment of this unpleasant reality is beyond the scope of this brief summary; however, some examples, with references to the Masonic authorities, will suffice to illustrate this astonishing fact.

a. The Square and Compass

Blue Lodge Masons are taught that the Square is to remind them that they must be "square" in their dealings with all men, i.e., to be honest. The Compass, they are taught, is to teach them to "circumscribe their passions," i.e. to control their desires and to be temperate. The real meaning of these "great lights," however, is sexual. The Square represents the female (passive) generative principle, the earth, and the baser, sensual nature; and the Compass represents the male (active) generative principle, the sun/heavens, and the higher, spiritual nature. The Compass, arranged above the Square, symbolizes the (male) Sun, impregnating the passive (female) Earth with its life-producing rays. The true meanings, then are two-fold: the earthly (human) representations are of the man and his phallus, and the woman with her receptive cteis (vagina). The cosmic meaning is that of the active Sun (deity, the Sun-god) from above, imparting life into the passive Earth, (deity, the earth/fertility goddess) below and producing new life (2)

b. The Letter "G"

The Blue Lodge Mason is taught that the "G" in the Masonic symbol represents God. Later on, he is told that it also represents "deity." Later still, he is told that it represents "geometry." In reality, this letter represents the "generative principle," the Sun-god and, thus, the worshipped phallus, the male "generative principle…" In its position (along with the Square and Compass) on the east wall over the chair (throne) of the Worshipful Master, it is the representation of the Sun, thus of the Sun-god, Osiris. Its earthly meaning, then, is of the sacred phallus; its cosmic meaning is of the Sun, worshipped since antiquity by pagans while facing the East. (See c, below).

c. The "G" and the "YOD"

The English letter "G" in Masonic symbolism is inseparable from, and identical with, the Hebrew letter "YOD." This "YOD" is the symbol on the Scottish Rite ring. "YOD" represents deity in general (its cosmic meaning), and the worshipped phallus in particular (its earthly meaning). Albert Pike wrote that the "G" displayed in English speaking lodges is merely a corruption of the "YOD" (with which it should be replaced), and that "the mysterious YOD of the Kabala" is the "image of the Kabalistic Phallus." (3) The "Kabalah" he refers to here is a medieval book of the occult, a highly mystical and magical interpretation of the Bible, (4) and important sourcebook for sorcerers and magicians. (5)

d. The Point Within a Circle

The Masons of the Blue Lodge are taught that the Point within a Circle represents the individual Mason (the Point), contained and restricted by the boundary line of his duty (the Circle). Its real meaning, however, is that of the phallus, positioned within the female generative principle (sex organ), the climactic act of Sun-god worship. (6)

Dr. Albert Mackey, already quoted herein, also writes in his classic work "Symbolism of Freemasonry," page 352, "Phallus, a representation of the virile member which was venerated as a religious symbol… It was one of the modifications of sun worship, and was a symbol of the fecundating power of that luminary. The Masonic point within a circle is undoubtedly of phallic origin."

e. The Vertical Lines

The two vertical lines touching the sides of the circle are represented to the Blue Lodge Mason as "the Holy Saints John." By this is meant John the Baptist and John the Apostle. In reality, the two vertical lines represent the Summer and Winter Solstices, the shortest and longest nights of the year, respectively. These nights are, and have been since antiquity, important periods for pagan worship.

Concerning these two lines, Albert Mackey has written ("Symbolism of Freemasonry," page 352), "The lines touching the circle in the symbol of the point within a circle are said to represent St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist, but they really refer to the solstitial points, Cancer and Capricorn, in the Zodiac."

f. The Bible

The Bible, only one of the "Three Great Lights" of Masonry (along with the Square and Compass), is represented to Blue Lodge Masons as symbolizing truth. In reality, the Bible may be replaced with the Koran, the Book of the Law, The Hindu scriptures or any other "holy book," depending on the preferences of the men in the Lodge. In most American Lodges, the members are told that all the Masonic system and its rituals are "based on the Bible." Such, however is not the case. In Chase's "Digest of Masonic Law," pages 207-209, it is clearly written that "Masonry has nothing whatever to do with the Bible," and that "it is not founded upon the Bible, for if it were it would not be Masonry, it would be something else."

Albert Pike, in writing on the subject of Masonry's source-book said, "Masonry is a search after light. That search leads us directly back, as you see, to the Kabalah." (Morals and Dogma, page 741). The Kabalah, then, seems to be the actual sourcebook of Masonry and the Bible merely (as it is spoken of in the ritual) a piece of the "furniture" of the Lodge.

NOTE: For more information concerning Masonic symbols and their true meanings, see McQuaig, C.F., "The Masonic Report," Answer Books and Tapes, Norcross, GA, 1976; Storms, E.M., "Should a Christian Be a Mason?," New Puritan Library, Fletcher NC 1980; and Mackey, Albert G., "Symbolism of Freemasonry," Charles T. Powner Co., Chicago 1975.

Footnotes:

"Phallus: a representation of the virile member (male sex organ) which was venerated as a religious symbol very universally… by the ancients. It was one of the modifications of Sun-worship, and was a symbol of the fecundating (impregnating) power of that luminary. The Masonic point within a circle is undoubtedly of phallic origin." (Mackey, Albert G., "Symbolism of Freemasonry," p. 352)
Pike, Albert, "Morals and Dogma," pp. 11, 839, 850, 851.
Pike, Albert, "Morals and Dogma," pp. 5, 757, 758, 771, 772.
Cabala (Kabalah) is a medieval and modern system of theosophy, mysticism and thaumatology (magic), "Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary." P. 53.
Baskin, Wade, "The Sorcerer's Handbook," New York, Philosophical Library, 1974.
"These two divinities… were commonly symbolized by the generative parts of man and woman… The Phallus and Cteis (vagina), emblems of generation and production, and which, as such, appeared in the Mysteries. The Indian Lingam was the union of both, as were the Boat and Mast, and the Point within the Circle… Pike Albert, "Morals and Dogma," p. 401.

THE MASCULINE JOURNEY

by Robert Hicks

WATCH UNTO PRAYER DISCLAIMER:

We apologize for the offensive content of this material, the inclusion of which was sorely debated; however Masculine Journey is still published and sold as a Christian book and therefore requires examination by Christians.

Chapter 3 ~

The Phallic Male - Zakar: The Mysterious Taskmaster

The Phallus as the Organ of Gender Discrimination

The second word used for man or male is the Hebrew word zakar, which is usually translated as "male" in opposition to woman. (1) This word is used eighty-two times in the Old Testament, but when the Semitic roots for the word are examined, the primary verbal idea is "to be sharp, or pointed." (2) Now, the connotation is not that of being a "sharp" dresser or such. The meaning has to do with the male protrusion, hence the male penis or phallus. When Arabic (also a Semitic language using the same three consonantal bases for words) is consulted, the word for male (dakar) and the word for penis is the same word. (3) In other words, the Scriptures root male identity and sexuality firmly in anatomy, rather than psychology or sociology. Male identity, as determined by modern psychology, says, "You are a male if you feel like one." Sociology might say, "You are a male if you do the kinds of things that the given culture says you should do to be considered male." Obviously, in this rapidly changing culture mixed with the garden variety of pop psychologies, male identity can mean virtually anything.

The Bible simply defines manhood by the phallus, the very way the doctor did when my son was born. I am a male, whether I feel like it or not, or whether I ever do anything considered masculine by the culture in which I am living. This is the fixed point on the male journey that roots my identity as a man in something that will never change. Yes, sex-change operations take place, but they only illustrate the complete rebellion and perversion of the concept. The entirety of the Scriptures reflect the simple twofold division of the entire human and animal kingdom into male (zakar) and female (neqevah). The female term likewise has anatomical overtones in meaning, namely having the ideas of being "bored through, and pierced." (4) This roots the essential identity of both sexes in the equipment they show up with at birth. Such equipment we know has been developing differently from the time of conception.

On the day my son, Graham, was born, he did not know what it meant to be phallic. This awareness, with all its associated ideas and problems, came later with puberty. But for now let me continue to address how the Scriptures use this word zakar.

The Phallus as Determiner of Religious Service

The feminist era has made all gender differentiation into political discrimination. Therefore, when some feminists read the Bible all they see is the sexual discrimination that they believe dominated the biblical writers' instruction. However, the Bible says only what it says, and often what we see in it is what we want to see. It is very easy to view the Bible through the cultural or political glasses that we have already embraced as correct. Therefore, we go to the Bible to justify our own political or theological correctness. And we make our modern agendas lord, rather than going to the Bible and seeking to understand its message in a radically different time and place. There are many things in the Bible that seem unfair, but the reason they seem unfair is because modern standards of fairness differ radically from what we read in the Bible. The real question I need to ask myself as a Bible reader is, "Where did I get my current standards for fairness?" We get them through the agency of our modern cultural perspectives and influences. Therefore, the fact that spiritual service in the Old Testament was regulated by gender seems offensive to modern readers. I can't answer why this is so or what it really means to the church today, but I do know there are differences. So what are the differences?

First, the celebrative animal offerings made during Israel's feasts were made on the basis of gender. Heads of households on Passover were to bring a male lamb (Exodus 12:5). For a guilt offering only a female sheep or goat was allowed (Leviticus 5:6). Peace offerings could be either male or female (3:1,6), while all freewill offerings had to be male (22:19). Why? I have no idea! No reason is given in the text for the differences. But what it does reveal is that each individual was required to worship God in specific ways. I don't believe there was any preference toward maleness or femaleness in this system. However, some feminists have noted that only the male was required to bring a sacrifice (Exodus 23:17, 34:23; Deut 16:16). This is true. It was also true that only males could be priests (Exodus 28:1; Lev. 8:1-3). Furthermore, only males could be killed in mass murder and used as cannon fodder in war, while women and children were often allowed to live (Deut. 20:13-14). (5) Men also got to pay far more money than women for making the same vows (Lev. 27:3,5-6).

These differences seem just as unfair to me as a man when I view them through the lens of my modern "enlightened" society. Why should I as a man have to pay more money than a woman for making the same religious vow? Or why should I have to risk my own life in warfare, when at least women have the option of being servants of the winning army and staying alive? These stipulations do not seem fair. One can view these differences as one would examine the bark of trees while missing what is going on in the forest. Even though I don't know exactly why these differences exist -- since no explanation is given -- it is my generalization that what it says about the phallic male is that there is no conflict between sexuality and spirituality. We are called and addressed by God in terminology that describes who and what we are -- zakar, phallic males.

Possessing a penis places unique requirements upon men before God in how they are to worship Him. We are called to worship God as phallic kinds of guys, not as some sort of androgynous, neutered nonmales, or the feminized males so popular in many feminist-enlightened churches. We are told by God to worship Him in accordance with what we are, phallic men.

The Phallus as the Symbol of Dedication and Connection

Years ago we moved our family to the beautiful isle of Hawaii. Like all newcomers we toured the outer islands and took in the ancient Hawaiian culture. On one occasion I remember staring at various ancient artifacts. As my wife noticed the same statue I was looking at, she questioned, "Why is it so large?" Her question was not related to the size of the statue but the size of its protruding phallus. I laughed and answered, "Nothing ever changes." Feminine puzzlement appeared on her face as she quickly moved to the next display. I could tell she really didn’t understand what I was getting at. To me there was very little difference between this Hawaiian idol/image and the artifacts that are sold regularly in "adult" bookstores. I'm sure some day archaeologists will dig up the adult toys from our current society and view them as elements of our religious worship. They will be right, because that's precisely what they are and always have been. The phallus has always been the symbol of religious devotion and dedication. Professor George Elder notes,

"Phallus, like all great religious symbols, points to a mysterious divine reality that cannot be apprehended otherwise. In this case, however, the mystery seems to surround the symbol itself. . . . It is not as a flaccid member that this symbol is important to religion, but as an erect organ." (6)

The Hawaiian phallus was, of course, as described!

The first thing we learn about the phallus in the bible is that it is the male organ that is singled out as the unique site for the first wound and bloodletting a man will face -- circumcision (Gen. 17:10, 14). Some have debated whether this first circumcision was nothing more than a bloodletting done by Zipporah, Moses' wife, on her own son, in order to appease God's wrath against Moses (Exodus 4:25). Whatever the origin, the ceremony became a male marker for both the child's dedication to God and his being linked to the community of Israel. It was also a symbolic recognition of God's faithfulness in the provision of male offspring who could, in turn, produce more offspring to continue the covenant. Circumcision, placed upon the organ of regeneration, created both a symbolic and physical wound that was a daily reminder to the boy and man of who he was. Every Israelite, when looking at himself naked, was reminded of how different he was from the Gentiles and for what purpose. In this sense, his sexuality took on spiritual significance. Every time he used his penis, he was making a spiritual statement about who he was and who he worshiped and why. It has always been this way, for every Jew in every culture!

In modern culture the phallus has been separated from spiritual categories. In some of the religious circles I have traveled in, men and women view the phallus as a spiritual liability. Women sort of tolerate or joke about the phallus functions in men, and in the church it is a rare cleric who gives any clarification to men on how the phallus should be understood and used. The silence says as much as the overt messages. The phallus is not a spiritual subject to be discussed alongside God, the Church and more "spiritual" doctrines.

This division of sexuality and spirituality is rather recent in the history of religious experience. In most pagan societies, sexuality is seen as an important aspect of uniting the spiritual with the physical and with the worship of gods and goddesses. In may cities, sacred prostitutes "served" at the temples in order to be the mediatrix between the gods and humans. One writer notes,

"The 'heiros gamos,' the sacred prostitute was the votary chosen to embody the goddess. She was the goddess' fertile womb, her passion and her erotic nature. In the union with the god, embodied by the reigning monarch, she assured the fertility and well-being of the land and the people. . . she did not make love in order to obtain admiration or devotion from the man who came to her, for often she remained veiled and anonymous; her raison d'être was to worship the goddess in lovemaking, thereby bringing the goddess love into the human sphere. In this union -- the union of masculine and feminine, spiritual and physical -- the personal was transcended and the divine entered in. As the embodiment of the goddess in the mystical union of the sacred marriage, the sacred prostitute aroused the male and was the receptacle for his passion . . . . The sacred prostitute was the holy vessel wherein chthonic and spiritual forces united." (7)

Now certainly I am not suggesting that true sexuality and spirituality should be untied in this way. After all, this was what the Apostle Paul was trying to straighten out in the Corinthian church because some of the believers were apparently still having intercourse with sacred prostitutes (I Cor. 6:15-20). In order to correct this perversion, he encourages the cultivation of a sexual relationship in marriage as a prevention from this abundant "sacred sex." Apparently, even the married couples had become abstinent as an overreaction to the Corinthian extremes and had thrown the sexual relationship totally out of marriage. To this problem, Paul tells them to "stop depriving themselves," and to recultivate the sexual area of their marriage lest they be severely tempted by the culture (or Satan). In similar fashion the Church has been reacting and overreacting on the relation of sexuality to spirituality ever since.

Current Christianity cannot openly deal with or talk about the male phallus in its full sexuality or fantasy. Much of the original manuscript for my book Uneasy Manhood, on the subject of men's sexuality, was edited out because it was too frank and honest, even about a Christian man's sexuality. On the other hand, modern psychology has become so sexually oriented that if a client is holding back anything of a sexual nature, he is viewed as one who has not fully disclosed, or is not being clinically honest, or must be manifesting psychological denial about his sexuality. At the same time, most secular therapists have not given much attention tot he adjacent spiritual issues that surround a full understanding of the phallus. Thus, they deal with sexual addictions and dysfunctions without considering the larger and deeper connections that might relate to issues of worship, spiritual bondage, or demonic activity. Monick observes this oversight by both psychology and the Church. He writes,

"People are uneasy with the correlation of sexuality and religion. Christianity, especially has separated the two in a way that would make them appear to be irreconcilable. Psychiatry continues the disjuncture, emphasizing it with pathological labels. The church elevates religion, devaluing sexuality. Psychiatry does the opposite -- elevating sexuality and devaluing religion. The union of sexuality and religion is like and electrical connection. Wrong joining leads to disaster. No joining produces no energy. Proper joining holds promise." (8)

A scriptural theology of sexuality joins them properly. I believe until the church sees men for what they are, phallic males with all their inherent spiritual tensions, it will not begin to reach men where they are living. Without proper teaching on the phallus, men will carry around in the psyches a spiritual god-hunger so mysterious and powerful that when driven underground, it will seek spiritual fulfillment only in the secrecy of motel rooms, adult videos, and in the bragging and joking about sexual exploits in athletic locker rooms. For many men in our culture, the secrecy has driven them to gay bars, topless nightclubs, and endless affairs. This sexual energy, which is essentially spiritual, takes place under the cover of darkness, perhaps because the Church has not shed enough light on the spiritual nature of our sexuality. Therefore, our sexual compulsions, addictions, and aberrations have become our expressions of worship -- worship of a false god.

Chapter 8 - A New Male Journey

Seeing Jesus as the Voice of God

The second most often-asked question I get at men's retreats is, "Where does Jesus fit into all this?' Well, He fits very nicely as the One who moves us on from one stage to the next. He is the only One who can genuinely empathize with where we are because He also has experienced the same stages on the masculine journey (Heb. 4:15). Jesus, of course, was the second Adam (Rom. 5:14), and as the second Adam was very much human, He experienced the full range of human emotional and physical life, yet did not sin. But the Hebrews passage affirms for us that He was sincerely tempted to sin. I believe He was truly tempted without compromising His deity.

Jesus was very much zakar, phallic. As much as the feminists try to ignore this issue, Jesus was very much masculine, and masculine means being male, and being male means having a penis. There's no way around it. some in church history could not tolerate the exposure of the Son of God's genitalia. Therefore, you will never find a portrait of the crucifixion of Jesus with penis exposed, even though it was a common Roman custom to crucify criminals naked. Even the gospel writers tell us that Jesus outward garment was torn into four pieces, leaving the inner tunic, which was then gambled for intact (John 19:23-24). That left nothing. No underpants. Nothing. And I seriously doubt that the soldiers would have wrapped a towel around Him for the sake of the portrait!

I believe Jesus was phallic with all the inherent phallic passions we experience as men. But it was never recorded that Jesus had sexual relations with a woman. He may have thought about it as the movie Last Temptation of Christ portrays, but even in this movie He did not give in to the temptation and remained true to his messianic course. If temptation means anything, it means Christ was tempted in every way as we are. That would mean not only heterosexual temptation but also homosexual temptation! I have found this insight to be very helpful for gay men struggling with their sexuality.

THE MASCULINE JOURNEY, Robert Hicks, NavPress, 1993

Pp. pp. 47-55; 180-181.

Footnotes

William L. Holladay, ed., A Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (Grand Rapids:Eerdmans, 1971), p. 89.
See Brown, Driver and Briggs, A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament; and G. Johannes Botterwick and Helmer Ringgren, ed., Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, vol. 4 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974), pp. 82-87.
Botterwick and Ringgren, p. 83.
Ibid.
Women were killed in the conquest of Canaan, but it seems this was not the intent of what was declared in Deuteronomy.
Quoted in Eugene Monick, "Phallos and Religious Experience," in Keith Thompson, ed., To Be a Man: in Search of the Deep Masculine (Los Angeles: Jeremy P. Tarcher, 1991), p. 127.
Nancy Qualls-Corbett, The Sacred Prostitute: Eternal Aspect of the Feminine (Toronto: Inner City Books, 1988), pp. 39-40.
Monick, p. 127.

THE LEGEND OF HIRAM ABIFF

(The Egyptian Connection)

THE DEADLY DECEPTION

Jim Shaw & Tom McKenney

Appendix D

The heart of Freemasonry is the Blue Lodge with its three degrees. The climactic degree (and the final one for most Masons) in the Blue Lodge is the Third, or Master Mason Degree. The heart of the Master Mason Degree, the thing that gives it both meaning and substance, is without any doubt the reenactment of the Legend of Hiram Abiff. It is this central figure in the legend, this Hiram the "Widow's Son," the "Tyrian Architect," this 'First Grand Master' who is impersonated by every man who is initiated as a Master Mason. It is Hiram who is at the very heart of the foundation of all of Masonry. His true identity and nature become, then, matters of extreme significance. Just who -- and what -- was this man, Hiram Abiff?

1. The Masonic Tradition

According to the Masonic legend, Hiram Abiff was a man of Tyre, the son of a widow, and the chief architect of the Temple built by King Solomon. He was the central character in the building of the Temple and one of three leading characters along with King Solomon and Hiram, King of Tyre. Hiram Abiff, Masonry teaches, was the only one on Earth who knew "the secrets of a Master Mason," including the most important secret of all, the "Grand Masonic Word," the name of God (the "ineffable name"). Since, in occult lore, knowing the name of a spirit is a key to having its power, there was a very great power in knowing this word. Knowing the other "secrets of a Master Mason" would enable the masons/workmen working on the Temple project to go out on their own, working as Master Masons and earning Master Mason's wages."

This Hiram had promised to reveal the "secrets of a Master Mason," including the name of God ("Grand Masonic Word"), upon completion of the Temple, and to make the workmen Master Masons, able then to go out on their own as masters (they were, as yet, only "fellowcraft" Masons). One day Hiram went, as was his custom, into the unfinished Holy of Holies at noon ("High Twelve") to worship and to draw up the work plans (on his "trestleboard") for the workmen to follow the next day. The workmen were outside the Temple for their lunch break ("…the craft were called from labor to refreshment…")

As Hiram was leaving the Temple he was accosted by three "ruffians," in succession, who demanded that they be given the secrets immediately (without waiting for the Temple to be completed). He was handled roughly by the first ruffian (Jubela), but escaped. Accosted and handled roughly by the second ruffian (Jubelo), he again refused to divulge the secrets and again escaped. The third ruffian (Jubelum) then accosted him and, when Hiram again refused to divulge the secrets, killed him with a blow to the forehead with a setting maul. The body was hastily concealed under some rubbish in the Temple until midnight ("low twelve") when it was taken out to the brow of a hill and buried. The grave was marked by a branch of Acacia (an evergreen tree common in the Middle East), and the three ruffians attempted to escape the country. Denied passage on a ship out of the country, they retreated into the hills to hide. Meanwhile, back at the Temple, it was noticed that Hiram was missing and King Solomon was notified. Solomon immediately ordered a search in and about the Temple with no success. At this point 12 "fellowcrafts" reported to the King that they and three others (the three "ruffians") had conspired to extort the secrets of Hiram Abiff but they had repented and refused to go through with the murderous plan. They reported that it was those other three who had murdered Grand Master Hiram and King Solomon then sent them out in groups of three to search in all directions.

After questioning the sea captain who had refused the murderers passage, three of the searchers then followed the murderers' path and discovered the grave with its Acacia at the head. Digging down and recognizing the body, they reported back to Solomon. Solomon sent them back to locate the grave, positively identify the body as Hiram and to attempt to raise it from the grave with the grip of an Entered Apprentice. They relocated the grave but were unable to raise the body because decomposition had caused the flesh to cleave to the bone.

Reporting back to Solomon, they were told to return to the grave and attempt to raise the body with the grip of a Fellowcraft. When this failed because the skin slipped away, they reported back to Solomon who, himself, went to the grave and raised the body up with the grip of a Master Mason, the "Strong Grip of a Lion's Paw." Hiram was not only brought up out of the grave, but restored to life. The first word he spoke was the replacement for the "Grand Masonic Word" lost at his death and that word is the one passed down to Master Masons to this day. (1) This, then, is the Masonic legend of Hiram Abiff, and most Blue Lodge Masons believe that it is a factual, scriptural and historical account. It is generally believed, in spite of the fact that the Masonic authorities and writers of doctrine agree that it is not only a myth, unsupported by facts, but acknowledge that it is but a retelling of Isis and Osiris.

2. The Bible Record

Does the Bible record such as person as Hiram Abiff? Definitely not, although part of his identity is taken from the Bible. The Scriptures record two men named Hiram concerning the building of the Temple by King Solomon; one is Hiram, King of Tyre, who was supportive of Solomon and who provided materials and workmen for the project. The other Hiram, called "a widow's son of the tribe of Naphtali," was a worker in brass, not the architect of the entire Temple. He made the brass pillars, the brass lavers, shovels and basins. The Scriptures record that this Hiram, the widows son, completed all the work that he had come to do on the Temple. Presumably, he then returned to his home in Tyre, safe and sound (there is no indication in the Bible of anything to the contrary). (2) Concerning the Masonic claim that Hiram, the widow's son, was chief architect of the Temple, the Bible is clear in establishing that he was no such thing. The Bible reveals that God, Himself, was the designer and architect of the Temple, that He gave the plans in minute detail to David and that David gave them to Solomon, (3) along with most of the materials. To claim that anyone but God was the Chief Architect of the Temple is unfounded and, I believe, blasphemous.

3. The Egyptian Connection

It is the consensus of opinion among Masonic authorities, philosophers and writers of doctrine that the legend of Hiram Abiff is merely the Masonic version of a much older legend, that of Isis and Osiris, basis of the Egyptian Mysteries. The following is a brief summary of that legend, and a comparison with the Masonic legend of Hiram Abiff. This comparison is supported, beyond doubt, by the conclusions of the Masonic authorities.

a. The legend of Isis and Osiris

Osiris, both King of the Egyptians and their god, went on a long journey to bless neighboring nations with his knowledge of arts and sciences. His jealous brother, Typhon (god of Winter) conspired to murder him, steal his kingdom and did so. Isis, sister and wife of Osiris and his queen (as well as Egypt's Moon-goddess) set out on a search for the body, making inquiries of all she met.

After certain adventures, she found the body with an Acacia tree at the head of the coffin. Returning home, she secretly buried the body, intending to give it proper burial as soon as arrangements were made. Typhon, by treachery, stole the body, cut it up into 14 pieces and hid them in as many places. Isis then made a second search and located all the pieces but one; the one missing and lost part was the phallus.

She made a substitute phallus, consecrated it, and it became a sacred substitute, and object of worship.

This, in extremely abbreviated form, is the Egyptian legend of Isis and Osiris. It is without doubt, the basis for the Masonic legend of Hiram Abiff. To support this "Egyptian connection," let's consider two things: a brief comparison of key elements in both stories and the conclusions of the Masonic authorities in Masonic source-writings.

b. A Brief Comparison of the Legends of Hiram Abiff and Osiris

The fundamental similarity between the two stories may be seen in many respects; the following are some of the most important:

(1) Both men went to foreign lands to share their knowledge of arts and sciences.

(2) In both legends there is a precious thing possessed: Hiram has the secret word; Osiris has the kingdom.

(3) In both legends there is a wicked conspiracy by evil men to seize the precious thing.

(4) In both legends there is a struggle and a murder of the virtuous leader.

(5) Both are murdered by their brothers (Osiris by Typhon; Hiram by Jubelum, his brother Mason).

(6) Both bodies are buried hastily, with the intention of a later, deliberate burial.

(7) Locations of the bodies are both marked by Acacia at the head.

(8) In both legends, there are two separate searches for the bodies.

(9) In both legends there is a loss of something precious: in Hiram's death, the secret word is lost; in Osiris' death, the phallus is lost.

(10) In both there is a substitution for the precious thing that has been lost; concerning Hiram it is the substitute for the secret word; concerning Osiris it is the substitute phallus.

c. Conclusions of the Masonic Authorities

A few statements from the most authoritative Masonic writers will suffice to express the doctrinal consensus:

(1) "The legend and traditions of Hiram Abiff form the consummation of the connecting link between Freemasonry and the Ancient Mysteries." (Pierson, "Traditions of Freemasonry," p. 159)

(2) "We readily recognize in Hiram Abiff the Osiris of the Egyptians…" (Pierson, p. 240)

(3) "Osiris and the Tyrian Architect (Hiram Abiff) are one and the same." (Sickles, Daniel, "Freemason's Guide." p. 236)

(4) "That part of the rite (Master Mason initiation) which is connected with the legend of the Tyrian Artist (Hiram Abiff)…should be studied as a myth and not as a fact…outside of Masonic tradition there is no proof that an event such as is related in connection with the "Temple Builder" ever transpired and, besides, the ceremony is older by more than a thousand years than the age of Solomon… It is thoroughly Egyptian." (Sickles, Daniel, "The Ahiman Rezon," p. 195)

(5) It (the Legend of Hiram Abiff) is thoroughly Egyptian, and is closely allied to the Supreme Rite (highest degree) of the Isianic Mysteries (Mystery religion of Isis and Osiris)." (Mackey, Albert, "Lexicon of Freemasonry," p. 195)

CONCLUSION

Thus, it seems clear, the Hiram Abiff of Freemasonry is not an historical character and certainly not a biblical one. Rather, he actually represents Osiris, the Egyptian Sun-god, and the reenactment of the Legend of Hiram Abiff is actually the reenactment of the legend of Isis and Osiris.

Thus, each sincere man who is initiated into the Third (Master Mason) Degree of Masonry impersonates Osiris, the Sun-god of Egypt, and enters into his life of good deeds, his death, his burial and is "raised" in his resurrection from the dead. With this understood, it is then easy to understand the statement in the Kentucky Monitor (handbook for all Blue Lodge Masonry in the Grand Lodge of Kentucky) that, while the Christian's Messiah is called Jesus, the Mason's Messiah is called Hiram (Kentucky Monitor, "the Spirit of Masonry," xv).

(1) It puzzles me that no one has questioned the necessity for a "substitute" for the lost Grand Masonic Word. If it was lost at the death of Hiram because only he knew it, then why, when Hiram was raised back to life, didn't Solomon just ask him what the real, original one was? All Solomon needed to do was say something like, "Hiram…praise the Lord that you are no longer dead! Now what was that word all this fuss has been about?"

(2) I Kings 7:13-47

(3) I Chronicles 17;1-15; 22:11-29:9 (especially 28:19)

A Sacred Assembly

Masonic Foundations of the United States

litbrit: Florida's Statewide Vigils For Hate Crime Murder Victim Ryan Skipper

2007-04-13T09:17:00.000-07:00

This is such a great looking open faced sweet guy. It's really a damn shame.

litbrit: Florida's Statewide Vigils For Hate Crime Murder Victim Ryan Skipper

I'm glad there are so many vigils in FL and glad there is one in DC. I'd like to see one in Tampa ...

2007-04-13T09:07:00.001-07:00

Pleas to 911 for aid ignored
As a woman chokes to death, a supervisor in Pasco refuses to offer help, records say.
By Camille C. Spencer
Published April 11, 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
Related content
Listen to 911 tape

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Latest Video

NEW PORT RICHEY - The call came in to Pasco's 911 center at 9:14 p.m. March 24.

Jennie Montanino, dispatcher: 911, what is your emergency?

Chris Cooper: My girlfriend's choking.

Cooper didn't know how to do the Heimlich maneuver. Montanino, who is not yet certified in emergency medical dispatch, was not qualified to talk him through it.

Montanino asked three times for a trained dispatcher to help, according to Pasco County records released Tuesday. Several co-workers heard dispatch supervisor David Cook respond:

"I am not getting on with a hysterical caller."

Seven minutes after the distraught boyfriend first called 911, Cook picked up the line and talked Cooper through the Heimlich maneuver. It didn't work.

Paramedics arrived a few minutes later. Nancy McGhee, 37, was dead.

---

McGhee had choked on a piece of steak at Cooper's home in Land O'Lakes.

According to county documents, while Cooper begged for help and Montanino was asking for assistance, Cook was on the phone joking with someone from the Sheriff's Office.

Montanino "yelled out for emergency medical dispatch and no one responded," co-worker Judie Faille wrote. Montanino "repeatedly threw her arms up in the air in frustration."

Pasco County has 29 dispatchers and supervisors. Only 18 have certification in emergency medical dispatch, or EMD. The state doesn't require all dispatchers to have EMD training. Local requirements vary from one county to the next.

Pasco's other 11 dispatchers, including Montanino, will be certified after completing a course that ends April 27. In the meantime, when a 911 call requires that level of assistance, they are supposed to ask for help from someone with the training.

According to written employee accounts, Montanino asked for help three times. One of her co-workers, Dan Dede, echoed her calls for help twice.

According to a letter Montanino wrote about the incident, lead communications officer Maureen Thomas said, "I am not getting on."

Thomas' written response: "I do not remember being asked to do (emergency medical dispatch) or saying that I would not get on the phone."

But several co-workers distinctly remember Cook, the dispatch supervisor, declining to help because he didn't want to deal with a "hysterical" caller.

Eventually, Cook got on the phone and explained the Heimlich maneuver, which can help dislodge items from a choking victim's windpipe. Cooper put down the phone to try it.

"He left the freakin' phone," Cook muttered, according to the 911 tape.

When that didn't work, Cook passed the caller back to Montanino. Several dispatchers said Cook slammed the phone on his desk and said, "I'm over this already."

Cooper was sobbing as McGhee died, frustrated that nothing he did was working, and help wasn't coming fast enough.

The ambulance came 11 minutes after Cooper called 911. The closest units were fighting a house fire, according to county records, so responders had to come over from another district.

John Fatolitis, a shift supervisor who later reviewed the 911 tape, urged his bosses to investigate.

"Since our training program puts call takers live without EMD training," he wrote, "it's up to supervisors and (lead communications officers) to monitor these employees and give priority assistance when needed and requested.

"Could we have made a difference? We will probably never know."

---

Pasco officials began investigating the day after McGhee's death. Cook was placed on paid leave. Then, before officials concluded their investigation last week, Cook, 58, announced he would take an early retirement.

He didn't return calls Tuesday for comments.

His 18-year tenure with county dispatch has been a mixed bag, according to his personnel file.

He received mostly positive performance evaluations, although a 1993 evaluation said he "can sometimes be short with public and field (personnel)" and has "little patience with stupidity." He was promoted to supervisor in 1996, only to be demoted a few months later without any explanation in the file.

He was promoted back to supervisor in 2003. Earlier last month, however, he received a verbal warning for falling asleep twice during a shift.

Thomas, the lead communications officer, has been on sick leave since April 4. Officials are also looking into her role in the March 24 call, human resources director Barbara DeSimone said.

DeSimone said Montanino did everything she could.

Dispatchers, who work 12-hour shifts, routinely deal with the stressful task of handling other people's crises, said Scott McDermid, deputy chief of the state's Emergency Medical Services.

"That is a very, very difficult job to have," he said. "Some people are good at it, and some people aren't."

---

McGhee's family has not yet heard the tape, but they wonder whether anything more could have been done to save her life.

"It sounds to me that somebody dropped the ball here," said McGhee's older brother Richard, 38, of Mount Vernon, Ill. "They shouldn't have lost their patience."

After paramedics arrived at Cooper's home, word reached dispatch that McGhee had died.

According to written accounts from several coworkers, Cook responded:

"She must have bitten off more than she can chew."

Camille C. Spencer can be reached at (727) 869-6229 or cspencer@sptimes.com.

[Last modified April 11, 2007, 07:43:28]

Share your thoughts on this story
First Name (only)

Location
Comment (May be published online and/or in print)

You have 250 characters left to comment.

Comments on this article by kerrie 04/13/07 08:03 AM
Well, THIS ought to make people feel all comfy and secure! Pasco had TWO cold, calloused supervisors working 911? Perhaps the PTB ought to consider a nice long series of supervisor in-service. Looks as if ANYTHING would be an improvement.
by Karen 04/13/07 07:34 AM
If this is an accurate portrayal of the events, then in our society you can be tried for negligence. Personally, I think he should be tried for involuntary manslaughter.
by Mel 04/13/07 07:03 AM
If these events happened as stated, it is appaling. Mr. Cook should be let go immediately, no retirement & Thomas given proper training. But, according to the reply from "Kelly" I ask, "So, what really happened? What is the other side to the story?"
by Siomara 04/13/07 06:21 AM
How can he sleep at night? Why was he a supervisor? What was he thinking? He was very insensitive. He needs to pay for what happened adn also give a public apology. If he did not like his job he should have quit a long time ago.
by Brian EMT-P 04/13/07 03:16 AM
Cook should be fired. He did nothing to help this pt or the family. They got rid of Imus, and he didn't kill anyone
by David 04/13/07 01:59 AM
What can I say that hasnt been said already? Training for ALL dispatch employees, and FIRE Cook, no retirement pension, and charges of involuntary manslaughter. He knew full well his actions COULD result in a death.
by Cheryl 04/12/07 06:57 PM
That SOB Cook should go to jail then to Hell
by Fred 04/12/07 06:43 PM
Why is someone who answers 911 medical, not EMD cert? Total of approx 15 mins. from the Icall to ALS being on scene. This is why the fire departments should not transport. County operated EMS service would of been there for Nacy in under 8 mins.
by Jesse 04/12/07 03:46 PM
What in the name of creation was this person doing handling 911 calls? They're unfit to work at a fast food place. Make certification required, and then you won't have idiots like this in place. I hope other people who call get good assistance.
by Jenny 04/12/07 03:17 PM
It's unfortunate that it takes an event like this to get people thinking. 911 operators are expected to work overtime, at short notice, 24/7 no matter the weather, handle bad news calls all day & still function afterwards. Takes a toll eventually.
by Kelly 04/12/07 11:52 AM
If I read this and didn't know someone involved I'd be apalled..but I know someone involved in this, and i just want to say you can't believe all you read...2 sides to every story....
by Aida 04/12/07 10:08 AM
I agree with all the comments about Cook's punishment, but I also believe that NO ONE should be taking those calls that are not CERTIFIED! God forbid had it been one of my family members I would have choked Cook to death myself...
by Saddenedbutnot surprised 04/12/07 09:31 AM
Providing Emergency Medical Dispatch (EMD)instructions is a standard of care throughout Florida and the United States. As far as I am aware, Pasco does not utilize any EMD protocol. This situation has been a matter of when it happens, not if....
by Chrissy 04/12/07 09:00 AM
Im Nancy Mcghee's daughter and I think he should pay for what he did to my mother! Ive forgivin' him but he needs to pay. Now my brother's and sister have no mother to grow up with! I'll be fine I know she's in a good place! I LOVE MY MOM!! RIP MOMMY
by Pam 04/12/07 08:02 AM
Unbelievable! This guy (Cook) needs to be punished-severely. Early retirement is not a punishment! I hope he gets his someday!
by Annonymous 04/12/07 07:57 AM
It is easy to catch the attention of the public with negative and shocking news. Please do not forget the thousands of lives that are saved each year by proper medical dispatching. Try a positive follow up story of a life being saved. There are many.
by Linda 04/12/07 06:49 AM
Take Cook's pension away, reverse his retirement to firing, bring him up on charges of homicide, and subject him to humiliating community service for the duration of his life - which isn't worth very much!!
by Annonymous 04/12/07 06:45 AM
As a Communications Supervisor in a 9-1-1 center (different agency) I totally agree that both Cook and Thomas should be fired and that any pension or other monies owed to them should go towards training and to the family of the victim.
by Annonymous 04/12/07 05:58 AM
I hope our citizens realize that there are personnel that can handle these situations and really do care about the people in our Community. This is a very stressful position and it is a shame that you only hear about the mistakes and never the good.
by PAT 04/12/07 01:07 AM
WOW THAT GUY WAS COLD, REMINDS ME OF THAT GUY RUSTY! HE TOOK EARLY RETIREMENT TOO!!
by Ted 04/11/07 10:06 PM
There is no way David Cook should be allowed to receive any kind of a pension and Maureen Thomas needs to be fired.
by Gary 04/11/07 07:55 PM
He should be charged with manslaughter. His pension revoked.
by Nettie 04/11/07 07:53 PM
I can't believe this Mr. Cook..how can he live with himself!! I believe he should be reprimanded for his actions and be fired. I know from my own experience with 911..my father died. Took them 2hrs to get there. The population 2,000. Makes you think.
by Jackie 04/11/07 05:56 PM
It seems like rewarding this insensitive JERK with early retirement is a slap in the face to taxpayers and the McGhee family and friends. Fire his lazy butt.
by Christine 04/11/07 04:42 PM
If Mr. Cook's nerves and frustration level were this frazzled he should have been on R and R. He neglected to perform his duty-He should be fired. No pension. After all, Ms. McGee won't reap any benifit from his actions-Why should he.
by Shawn 04/11/07 04:35 PM
The incompetent city officials who shuffled this moron around should be sued. The city failed this this couple, and should pay dearly. Maybe the good ol boys will think twice before sweeping glaring incompetence under the rug. Disgraceful!
by Sal 04/11/07 04:18 PM
In response to "Leanne", 911 is not a privlede at all it is an important emegency SERVICE that our taxes pay for. The idea that it is a privledge is ridiculous.
by Sal 04/11/07 04:13 PM
I think this is a travesty! Of course quicker action could have possibly saved this woman's life. Typical Florida incompetance!
by ll 04/11/07 04:01 PM
David Cook should be 'fired' w/o the benefit of collecting retirement. his actions were criminal, if not just callous. his job is to provide emergegency assistance at all times he is on duty -- his personal business be dammned!
by Teresa 04/11/07 03:31 PM
Yes Cook deserves to be punished but it is also a message that everybody needs to be trained in basic CPR. You can't depend on someone else especially if it takes them 11 minutes to respond to a call.
by Frank 04/11/07 03:15 PM
I HOPE MR.COOK DO NOT GET ANY PENSION...
by christina 04/11/07 03:08 PM
How can a emergency medical person answer a 911 call and can not assist the caller in an emergency? People get a job that you are qualified for like at your local super market or mortuary! Saving lives is sourious business.911 is for saving lives.
by Diane 04/11/07 02:19 PM
I don't feel any taxes should be used for this useless man's retirement. He basically murdered her by not helping. Can we say criminally liable? He didn't do his job when it was MOST important-put him in jail w/couey! He's no better!
by Jennifer 04/11/07 02:13 PM
This is such a tragedy that may have been prevented had Cook done his job. I feel Cook should be charged with either wrongful death or negligent homicide for his actions. He should definitely be held accountable for her death.
by Dale 04/11/07 02:05 PM
The county needs to terminate this man's employment immediately, so he's ineligible for the retirement. His actions reflect poorly on the county and the department. Oh yeah, I hope the boyfriend and her family all SUE

Site Archives Web
Subscribe to the Times

Click here for daily delivery
of the St. Petersburg Times.

Email Newsletters
Be the first to know. Register for free breaking news alerts and morning headlines.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ADVERTISEMENT

© 2007 • All Rights Reserved • St. Petersburg Times
490 First Avenue South • St. Petersburg, FL 33701 • 727-893-8111
Contact the Times | Privacy Policy | Standard of Accuracy | Terms, Conditions & Copyright

TRIB MAKES IT UP AS THEY GO ALONG on Aspergers

2007-04-12T11:50:00.000-07:00

TBO.com > News > Metro

WHAT IS ASPERGER'S?
Skip directly to the full story.
Published: Apr 10, 2007

ADVERTISEMENT

More from this channel:

Search for more information:

Site Search Archives Keyword

TBO.com Site Search | Tribune archive from 1990

WHAT IS ASPERGER'S?
This disability of the brain comes under the umbrella of autism. People with Asperger's syndrome have an unusual collection of gifts, sensitivities and deficits that may seem odd to the world at large but don't prevent them from building families, careers and independent lives.

Aspies or Asparagus, as they sometimes like to be called, often have average or above average intelligence, a Monty Python-esque sense of humor and an encyclopedic knowledge of obscure topics.

Common traits

•Lucid speech before age 4. Grammar and vocabulary are usually excellent, but speech is sometimes stilted.

•Obsessive behavior

•Movements tend to be awkward

•Extreme sensitivity or desensitivity to sounds, smells, textures
Oh yeah??? that sounds more like the symptoms of the shit you spray on my car and in my yard .... HAHAHA. Busted.

•Inability to read social cues or fit in with peers; sometimes trusting and naive, fail to understand sarcasm, and become victims of bullying and teasing

•In adulthood, many live independently, working and raising families. Many use their obsessions as college professors, computer programmers and engineers.

Celebrity cases

Notable people said to have or have had Asperger's:

•Comedian Dan Aykroyd

•Physicist Albert Einstein

•Mathematician Isaac Newton

•Composer Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

•Microsoft founder Bill Gates

Source: Center for the Study of Autism

Get Weekly Deals | Write to the editor | Subscribe/two weeks free | Place an Ad

TBO.com AdLinksSite Tools
Advertise with us
Web site feedback
Make TBO.com my homepage

RSS Feeds:
Feed for this channel
All feeds/RSS FAQ

Most Popular News:

More Headlines

Julie Brown Linked to Trash Fliers Tampa FL

2007-04-11T12:58:00.000-07:00

Brown Linked To Fliers
Skip directly to the full story.
By ELLEN GEDALIUS The Tampa Tribune

Published: Apr 11, 2007

ADVERTISEMENT

More from this channel:

Search for more information:

Site Search Archives Keyword

TBO.com Site Search | Tribune archive from 1990

TAMPA - The mysterious attack ads slamming John Dingfelder during the recent city council campaign were financed by people with close business ties to his opponent's husband.

The business associates of Julie Brown's husband poured at least $50,000 into the campaign, according to finance reports filed Tuesday.

Brown said during the campaign that she didn't know who was behind the ads.

"I have no involvement in this," Brown said Tuesday. "I had no idea. If I had any say, I would never have authorized any of this."

Brown ran against Dingfelder and Joe Citro in a particularly nasty Tampa City Council race. The candidates were vying for the District 4 south Tampa seat. Dingfelder prevailed.

Dingfelder said Tuesday that he thinks Brown knew about the links between her husband and the contributions.

"For my opponent and her friends to be using this type of organization to try to slander my good name was really inappropriate and slimy," Dingfelder said. "There are too many connections that would allow this to be innocent."

Contributor, Brown Shared Address
In the final days before the election, an electioneering group called ElectionWatch-Florida mailed four fliers to south Tampa residents, attacking Dingfelder. The ads, titled "Presenting: Ding'felder Follies," criticized Dingfelder's ethics and his position on taxes.

ElectionWatch-Florida is run by Jack Hebert, who runs a political consulting firm called The Mallard Group. The group has worked with several Republican lawmakers.

JC Davis Management contributed $25,000 to ElectionWatch-Florida, according to finance reports. The company's president is Spencer Ford, a businessman who owns Red House Lounge and Grill on South Howard Avenue.

The property is owned by HCB Holdings, a real estate holding firm, according to the property appraiser's office. Brown's husband, Hank, is listed in corporate records as president of HCB Holdings. Julie Brown said her husband sold his shares late last year.

In addition, JC Davis Management, in its corporate filings, lists its address at 304 S. Howard Ave. Brown's campaign headquarters was at the same address.

Spencer Ford, president of JC Davis Management, would not comment on why he gave $25,000 to ElectionWatch-Florida other than to say: "It's just something I wanted to do. I appreciated the cause."

HCB Manager Chipped In $25,000
Another big contributor is Blake Casper, whose company owns McDonald's restaurant franchises in the Tampa Bay area. Casper also is listed as a manager of HCB Holdings.

Casper contributed $25,000 to ElectionWatch-Florida.

He also contributed directly to Brown's campaign, as did at least seven other companies listing the same business address as Casper's. They each contributed the maximum $500.

Casper could not be reached for comment late Tuesday.

Brown said she has known Spencer and Casper for years through her husband and business dealings.

Dingfelder, commenting on the connections, said, "Oh, what a tangled web we weave."

Reporters Michael Fechter and Michael H. Samuels contributed to this story. Reporter Ellen

Gedalius can be reached at

egedalius@tampatrib.com or (813) 259-7679.

Publix Pay Fallout

2007-04-09T10:34:00.000-07:00

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/09/Business/Publix_pay_fallout__R.shtml

Publix pay fallout: Readers give their 2 cents over losing a quarter

Readers, bloggers, customers and employees weigh in on a Publix plan that cuts some pay.

By Mark Albright, Times Staff Writer
Published April 9, 2007
ADVERTISEMENT
Business News Video
photo
[Times photo: Keri Wiginton]
Ray O'Connor, 75, stands in front of the Publix where he has been a bagger for 10 years. His pay was recently docked 25 cents an hour.
Previous coverage

* Publix's new pay system: High performance, smaller paycheck (March 25)

Despite superior work ratings Louann McCurdy was earning the maximum $10.25 an hour cashier salary, so she wasn't always eligible for annual raises. But when her manager tried to cut her pay by a quarter an hour last week, that was too much.

She quit.

"After working at Publix 12 years I had earned every nickel of that $10.25 an hour so I'm not about to let them arbitrarily take it away," said the 48-year-old Tarpon Springs woman. "This isn't about the quarter. I have my pride. Right now I have no job, no prospects of getting one and yet I feel very relieved."

Publix Super Markets Inc. has been vague about who's shouldering most of the pay cuts from an unusual new pay plan imposed on 115,000 workers in its stores. But more than two dozen workers from Tampa Bay stores who accepted cuts to keep their jobs say most of those choices are being put to veteran Publix workers in their 50s, 60s and 70s - including an 80-year-old Palm Harbor bagger.

"They tagged five people here with pay cuts, including me," said Ed Lapinski, 55, a cashier in a Homosassa Publix. "The other four were seniors in their 70s."

In the two weeks since 75-year-old Spring Hill Publix bagger Ray O'Connor spoke out against the chain's new pay plan in a St. Petersburg Times article, there's been lots of fallout.

Letter writers peppered local media and filled a several pages of give-and-take among employees and customers on online comment boards where the story was published. Some customers said they will boycott Publix. Uncertainty spread among workers awaiting review or who had kept pay cuts to themselves.

"Even the private security guard at the front door asked me about my pay cut," said Wendy Giddings, 55, who works at a St. Petersburg store.

The discussion comes at a time when big retailers are beginning to grapple with ways to keep costs under control with an aging work force. Wal-Mart Stores Inc. was criticized when a memo surfaced last year mapping tighter work rules to prod more older workers to quit before they aged through their prime years for health claims. Circuit City Stores Inc. last month laid off 3,400 of its highest-paid sales help to replace them with lower-paid workers.

Publix, which says more than 20 percent of its store workers are 50 or older, says the pay plan is not about age or cost control. The company increased its payroll and adopted the pay system to take to the next level its renowned customer service and national recognition as an employer of choice among seniors.

"Only a small percentage of our 115,000 hourly store employees have had their pay reduced," said spokeswoman Shannon Patten. "This not about age. We're doing this for the right reasons: to reward those who perform well. A huge majority of our employees prefer it that way."

Publix's plan rewards top performers but, for the first time, can impose 25-cent-an-hour pay cuts to prod employees to do better if their evaluation scores slip. Workers get six months to improve before a pay cut.

Seventy-seven percent of Publix store employees reviewed in February got a raise while 4 percent saw a pay cut. Even top-tier scorers who got double raises of 50 cents an hour can lose them if they don't maintain their ratings.

Online reader comments characterized Publix "plantation-style management" taking small change from people living paycheck to paycheck after the company's net income soared to a record $1.1-billion in 2006.

From the other side, self-described hard workers question why veterans should get away with easing off the throttle, see no problem penalizing a small group of "bottom feeders" and say baggers don't add much value to Publix.

"It was jarring to people here because people thought Publix, which has been seen as a desirable employer, was beyond all this," said Peter Helwig, a Lakeland lawyer in Publix's corporate home town.

Blogs of retail experts read by supermarket executives debated the pros and cons of Publix' use of disincentives. Most liked the idea if store managers can rate employees on a consistent basis using objective, benchmarked criteria.

"The fact is Publix doesn't want someone who quits over a quarter an hour anyway," said David J. Livingston, president of DJL Research in Pauwaukee, Wis. "They want someone who tries harder all the time, has a great attitude and, if they lose a quarter an hour, is committed to get it back. That's what made this company a dominant force against strong competition like Wal-Mart."

Some whose pay was cut question the consistency of their ratings. A few lost attendance points for taking sick leave. One lost two points for each unexcused absence while another was docked one point for the same reason in the same store.

"It's still a good company," said Gene Sullivan, a one-time Publix store manager. "They just put too many young managers who don't know how to treat people in charge of multimillion dollar businesses."

As for O'Connor, the bagger who was first to sound off about the pay plan, he was counseled by his managers to refer customers who ask about his job situation to them. Last week they handed him a $5 gift certificate after a customer lauded him for "superb service."

"Maybe they're trying to butter me up" he joked. "But I'm not leaving here until my work record is cleared."

Mark Albright can be reached at albright@sptimes.com or (727) 893-8252.

What they're saying

"What a recipe for poor employee relations! I won't feel the same way about Publix if I shop there again."

Dorothy Snidow, St. Petersburg customer

"It was jarring to people here because people thought Publix, which has been seen as a desirable employer, was beyond all this."

Peter Helwig, a lawyer in Lakeland where Publix is headquartered

"It certainly appears that the spirit and values of the late George Jenkins are no longer with Publix."

Sarah A. Benjamin, South Pasadena customer

"If they stop improving after receiving the higher or maximum pay, they should get a pay cut."

Ta-Hung (Tony) Jenq, a Publix assistant store manager in Clearwater

"This paper needs to publish the pay of the CEO and top executives and all of their perks."

Jacqueline Paulausky, Clearwater customer

What happened

Publix Super Markets, Florida's No. 1 and the nation's sixth-largest supermarket chain, adopted a pay plan that rewards high achievers but can penalize employees who may do their job well but are not considered constantly improving. Lakeland-based Publix spent years creating its "Tie Pay To Performance" plan, aimed at rewarding more productive workers. Some Publix workers have found their pay docked despite being designated "successful" performers.

The response

A March 25 St. Petersburg Times story, left, about Publix bagger Ray O'Connor's pay cut and the supermarket's performance plan has prompted a strong and mostly critical response from readers of this newspaper and those of the Lakeland Ledger, which ran the story.

What it means

The topic touched nerves in several workplace debates, including inter-generational work conflict at the corner supermarket. Pay incentives for performance are old hat. But is it right to cut pay for low-level, part-time veterans if once-acceptable work performance supposedly slips a bit? How will retailers deal with an older work force as baby boomers age through their prime health care years?

[Last modified April 6, 2007, 20:57:13]

Share your thoughts on this story
First Name (only)

Location
Comment (May be published online and/or in print)

You have 250 characters left to comment.

Comments on this article
by Jesse 04/09/07 12:25 PM
If they would train the young managers and have higher standards of acceptance into management positions, the evaluations may have more weight, and then there would be no room to complain. If you slack, you deserve a pay cut. Bottom line.
by Jason 04/09/07 12:20 PM
I work at Publix. Let me tell you how brutal of a job you have to do to lose the 25 cents. Would you rather they just fire the older worker who is doign a terrible job? Heaven forbid you get paid accordingly to the job you do.
by Jon 04/09/07 12:18 PM
I have a friend who lost wages from this. He scored near the max on his reviews for years. But the 1st review he had AFTER the new policy he lost 30 points and was reviewed by a manager who been with publix for 2 months. How is that a fair system?
by Hannah 04/09/07 12:11 PM
The new pay plan would not be bad except that the uneducated Publix Management team can be very prejudiced. It is still operating in the good old boy network that got them in trouble in the early 90ò019s.
by Nancy 04/09/07 12:06 PM
The only way this can be fair is if the WHOLE COMPANY is being subjected to this type of management and that evaluation points can't be arbitrary. Also, employees must be aware what will cause deductions, how much and why and how they can gain points
by Lindsey 04/09/07 12:00 PM
My subdivision is across the street from a Publix. I compared 20 items I normally buy from Publix to Wal-Marts prices. The savings: over $20! Since then I've only used Publix for 1 or 2 items. Now with this nice news, I won't shop there at all!
by Jennifer 04/09/07 11:59 AM
These employees have worked for Publix for 10 and 12 years. You don't last that long if you're doing a poor job. Perhaps they didn't EARN getting a RAISE, but they didn't DESERVE a pay CUT!
by Richie 04/09/07 11:57 AM
Publix prices are way too high ,you'd have to be crazy to pay that.I shop at Super Wal-Mart or Winn Dixie.I don't want to pay higher prices just so the cashier will chit chat and smile.Who cares.
by Kidd 04/09/07 11:51 AM
How many of those touting performance measured pay are not hourly workers? I bet they change their tune once their account reconcilation they worked a week on gets them $100.00 docked from their semi monthly salary.
by Tony 04/09/07 11:45 AM
Sounds like the old sweat shop tactics of the 1920's & 1930's
by billy 04/09/07 11:43 AM
THE EMPLOYERS AT PUBLIX SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES, PERIOD .............
by Tracye 04/09/07 11:40 AM
I would employee many older workers, their work ethic is far more superior than young people who think everything is owed to them. As for Publix, you can have that store and their high prices. I do my shopping at Sweetbay as it is anyway.
by Ed 04/09/07 11:34 AM
Instead of cutting pay, Publix should revisit their training program. Do they grade and reward/punish managers with regards to how their associates stack up , review-wise? There's an old saying in retail that applies here.."It all starts at the top".
by Steve 04/09/07 11:30 AM
While working with retail customers is a noble job, I fail to understand how you can "coach" someone to become a better cashier. Smile, ring up things, then tender the transaction. It's insane to think you need to motivate someone by pay cuts.
by Diane 04/09/07 11:29 AM
At some time, somewhere, some how, people in management need to wear the shoes of their lowly workers. Only then will they begin to understand that wages cannot go lower when people need to support their families. Try living on $10.25 an hour.
by Heidi 04/09/07 11:25 AM
I have no desire to support a co. that treats its employees this way..and they also support fisherman..that promote the Harp Seal Hunts...Bad Publix...Bad!
by Kim 04/09/07 11:14 AM
I work for Publix, I see people who do their job and those who DEFINITELY do not. But I do not agree with the level of the new pay plan, only because it is nearly impossible to get "role model". I do my job well and I get my raises, it's not hard.
by James 04/09/07 11:11 AM
If Publix is only cutting few employees pay, and cutting it by say 25 cents, it doesn't seem that the "cost savings" is worth the fallout. How exactly can someone be a "disgruntled poor performer" and still have an excellent evaluation history?
by Mike 04/09/07 11:09 AM
Hidden in the depths of the article is the phrase that is really important: "Seventy-seven percent of Publix store employees reviewed in February got a raise while 4 percent saw a pay cut." How dare they reward good employees while penalizing bad?!
by JJ 04/09/07 11:04 AM
This will have no change on Publix. You can try a boycott, but it will not accomplish anything. They own the grocery business in Florida. What is the alternative? Wal-Mart? Is that an improvement?
by RHONDA 04/09/07 11:02 AM
I WILL NOT SHOP AT PUBLIX. YOUR PRICES ARE TO HIGH AND AFTER READING THIS ARTICLE IT MAKES ME SICK. BYE PUBLIX I HOPE OTHERS WILL DO THE SAME!!!!!
by hermann 04/09/07 11:00 AM
Publix you lost me as a customer look at your ceo and executives that,s where the problem is,I'm proud of this lady Louann McCurdy,
by Mike 04/09/07 11:00 AM
Publix should emulate whatever they do at COSTCO or Sam's club. The prices are lower and all of the employees are pleasant.
by Joy 04/09/07 10:56 AM
Hello, Paul! Sounds like Publix is the one who is biased -- against senior employees! I just recently filled out a form Publix is giving their customers. I certainly wouldn't fill it out the same way now. No more Publix for me!!!
by Susan 04/09/07 10:55 AM
I already refuse to shop at Publix because their prices on items I regularly purchase are so much higher than other local grocery stores. Even so, their parking lot is always full which tells me they are more concerned with profits than employees.
by A 04/09/07 10:53 AM
Another thing, do you guys know Publix freely gives all their employees stock in the company? And they offer a great daycare service? Since when has anyone been entitled to keep their current pay when they DON'T do their job correctly?
by Sergio 04/09/07 10:52 AM
Look I don't agree with what Publix is doing , however it's a company and if they persive you as a producer then they have the right to cut your pay. You can always work and shop somewhere else if you don't like it.
by A 04/09/07 10:51 AM
Mu husband works for Publix and what you didn't hear abotu this man is that they gave him time to change is workethic and he didn't and that is why he was dropped in pay. You should get the facts before putting your worthless 2 cents in.
by Warren 04/09/07 10:47 AM
Publix has reduced itself to another company where employee loyalty is secondary to earnings. How much can the company save? Not much compared to the bad public relations they have now placed upon the company.
by Bill 04/09/07 10:47 AM
As a past Publix employee, I know what they use to be, but with the younger managers that only look at bottom line and not at people it will fail. Krogers is doing the exact type of thing with thier older workers. Will nip-pick them till they quit.
by Ted 04/09/07 10:46 AM
If they want to cut pay of employees why don't they cut the salary of the fat cats..
by Bill 04/09/07 10:46 AM
This is a NEW style of doing business dreamed up by having too many middle management people sitting behind desks and getting paid too much looking at bottom line not what made the company what it is or should I say what it was.
by Susan 04/09/07 10:45 AM
I shop at Publix because it is a much more pleasant experience than Walmart. If Publix employees grow dissatisfied with their wages, what kind of customer service can we expect? I may switch to that big super Target they are building in my area!
by Vickie 04/09/07 10:43 AM
I have been wanting to give Albertson's a try:NOW the time is perfect.I am TIRED of paying Publix's exorbitant prices anyway.I think cutting pay for profit is unreasonable even with the best of intentions.Shame on Publix.
by Jesus 04/09/07 10:28 AM
Please for the love of god Publix is losing money over the past year look at the money, and dont blame the manager he was just told to do it by his higher ups. =/

Site Archives Web
Subscribe to the Times
Click here for daily delivery
of the St. Petersburg Times.

Email Newsletters
Be the first to know. Register for free breaking news alerts and morning headlines.
ADVERTISEMENT

© 2007 • All Rights Reserved • St. Petersburg Times
490 First Avenue South • St. Petersburg, FL 33701 • 727-893-8111
Contact the Times | Privacy Policy | Standard of Accuracy | Terms, Conditions & Copyright

Publix steps on itself

2007-03-27T10:01:00.000-07:00

Publix's new pay system: High performance, smaller paycheck
Even good employees can face pay cuts in a new pay plan at Publix that includes penalties as well as rewards.
By Mark Albright, Times Staff Writer
Published March 25, 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADVERTISEMENT
Business News Video

[Times photo: Keri Wiginton]
Ray O'Connor, 75, stands in front of the Publix where he has been a bagger for 10 years. His pay was recently docked 25 cents an hour.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After bagging groceries at Publix for nine years, Ray O'Connor was stunned when his bosses called his work "successful" then cut his pay a quarter to $8 an hour.

"I think they just want to get rid of me," said the 75-year-old Spring Hill man who works part-time to supplement his police officer pension. "They said I wasn't improving. Improve what? I've never dealt with anything like this in my life."

Now he has trouble sleeping. He's embarrassed when peers talk about pay. Nobody mentioned it, but he wonders if it's his age. He's talking of seeing a lawyer, but not quitting "until I get this blemish off my record."

O'Connor is among the first intended consequences of a new pay plan adopted by the nation's sixth largest supermarket chain. Lakeland-based Publix Super Markets Inc. spent years creating a "Tie Pay To Performance" plan that offers penalties as well as rewards.

Mass merchants have used performance incentives for years, but they're usually tied to a store's performance and meant to foster teamwork. Publix zeroes in on each worker and adds the unconventional twist of institutionalizing disincentives - even for top performers.

"We want a customer experience the customer deserves and expects at Publix, so we are rewarding people for hard work while increasing what we pay overall," said Shannon Patten, spokeswoman for the grocer that employs 142,000 people full- and part-time in five states. "But some associates face a decrease if their performance slips."

Here's how it works. Top performers - many of whom pocketed raises two to three times and up to $1 an hour more than what they were used to getting - love it. Others are getting their standard raises. Many must resolve to work harder. In February, 19 percent of employees up for review got no raise and 4 percent took pay cuts.

Publix says the plan is working. In August, 68 percent of hourly workers got a raise. The rest were put on six-month notice they had to shape up. Six months later in February, 77 percent got reviews good enough for raises, showing more workers got the message.

It's a culture shock at a chain already named one of the nation's 100 best employers, that consistently rates tops in Consumer Reports customer service ratings, and was just named the best of 19 major retail chains rated by the University of Michigan Customer Satisfaction Index.

For years, virtually all Publix store workers could count on a modest annual raise. Not now. Semi-annual evaluations, based on supervisors' numerical ratings in 21 areas, grade workers as role model, superior, successful or two types of needs-work-to-keep-the-job. The rating is matched to a performance pay range for each job. Publix gives workers a six-month warning to improve their performance to keep their current pay rate. That goes for top-rated "role models," too.

O'Connor, for instance, was rated "successful" the past two years with all his scores above average. Yet his seniority already put him at the top of the bagger pay range. So his pay was cut.

"Before this I was rated successful at 107 points and got a raise," he recalled. "Then I got a 123 and a 114 my past two evaluations and lost money." In August his supervisor wrote he needed to offer cart carry-out to more shoppers. In February he suggested O'Connor stay busier in slow times and coach younger baggers.

Publix declines to talk specifically about O'Connor's case. But the company - which employs 4,500 people over 70, 750 over 80 and two over 90 - says it's not about age. Internal reviews of those hit with pay cuts found all age groups.

Without a union contract, no federal or Florida law stops an employer from cutting pay. "But I've never heard of a plan that docks pay," said David Szymanski, chairman of the retail studies program at Texas A&M. "If you want to get rid of somebody for performance, just counsel them out."

Studies find retail employees want plans that reward performance and prod slackers to shape up. But inflation makes being passed over for a raise a pay cut. And some experts question taking money away from low level part-timers because it's divisive and undermines teamwork.

"I've never seen a pay-for-performance plan that works because it brings the top-performing lions out to feed on everybody else," said Terri Kabachnick, a Largo retail HR consultant and author of I Quit but I Forgot to Tell You. "It's worse in supermarkets where people don't control outcomes. Their day is go here, go there, clean up this spill. If you don't get along with the manager, forget it."

Is it wise to use money as an disincentive? "Cold hard cash leaves employees feeling ... well, cold," Kabachnick said.

It's a trend that began when department stores saw pay-for-performance as a cheaper alternative to commissioned sales jobs.

"In supermarkets, however, store managers often are not as sophisticated in HR practices," said Bart Weitz, chairman of the retailing program at the University of Florida.

It's not about the money to O'Connor. He has health insurance and works fewer than 25 hours a week. So with the pay cut he's only out $3 to $5 a week. "It's the principle," he said. "It's time somebody tells these big companies to stop stepping on the little guy."

Mark Albright can be reached at albright@sptimes.com or 727893-8252.

[Last modified March 23, 2007, 21:56:06]

Share your thoughts on this story
First Name (only)

Location
Comment (May be published online and/or in print)

You have 250 characters left to comment.

Comments on this article by Mike 03/27/07 11:16 AM
Bagging groceries only brings so much value to a company. What I can't believe is that we are paying baggers so much for such a menial task. For the rest of you complaining about management, you can remain the victim or take charge of your life
by doug 03/27/07 10:44 AM
What hair-brained MBA thought this new pay/performance system up. You can say 20 plus years of positive image down the drains.
by john 03/27/07 10:40 AM
Publix is getting worse. I used to shop at the Publix in downtown St. Pete. Try to find a manager around 6:00 pm when it's busy and all the lanes are full. I'll spend my money elsewhere.
by Dylan 03/27/07 08:58 AM
With everything so expensive how can you make a living working at publix. Find another job!
by Marie 03/27/07 08:28 AM
Way to go. Take away pennies from the people who live paycheck to paycheck. DON'T SHOP AT PUBLIX!!
by Tracy 03/27/07 07:53 AM
Has anyone ever had to deal with publix management? They need a drop in pay more than anyone else. Publix Corp should be assessing the management who runs their stores, not the man who is working hard to make ends meet. They should be ashamed.
by JT 03/27/07 07:52 AM
I use to work at Publix many years ago, its the same where I work today (US Airways). The Fat cat get fatter, and the price a loaf a bread keeps going through the roof for all of us...
by Paul 03/27/07 07:14 AM
Lets see, he bagged for them for nine years? I think he deserves a raise just for that! He received appreciation awards for treatment of customers...yet he doesn't do carry out as much as he should? He doesn't train younger baggers for $8 an hour??
by Mr. David 03/27/07 05:44 AM
Looks like Publix' "Plantation Style" management has finally been outed. It may be a pleasure to shop there (if you like high prices), but from what I've heard and rread, it's not the greatest place to work...Unless you're in management.
by Marty 03/26/07 11:54 PM
They just took a quarter away ....No notice. No Evaluation.
by Greeneyez 03/26/07 11:46 PM
What is so far fetched is that proformance evaluations are ultimently up to one personour dept. mangager. If they feel threated or intimidated in any way by you...they can set you up for sabotage. IT SUCKS! PUBLIX HAS NO CLUE!
by bobby 03/26/07 11:45 PM
I have actually worked with Ray, its not an age thing, its a not doing your job thing. Why should he make more than I if I'm working my butt off trying to progress with the company and he just stands around and watches me bag orders?
by just me 03/26/07 11:26 PM
Working at Publix, it seems this plan is for only certain people. This company is full of clicks, relatives, so if you are related...you have "NO" worries for getting pay cuts. Just ask around.
by VAL 03/26/07 10:52 PM
ISSUES PLEASE TRY TO KEEP THEM AT HOME. SUCH AS A DEATH IN THE FAMILY PLEASE TRY TO KEEP YOUR HEAD UP NOT THINK ABOUT IT TO MUCH WORK WORK WORK, THEY SAY THERE SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT BUT THEY WANT U 2 WORK CRAZY AND CUSTOMER SER. A
by VAL 03/26/07 10:51 PM
PUBLIX IS A VERY GOOD COMPANY TO WORK FOR BUT THERE MAIN FOCUS IS ALWAYS CUSTOMER SERVICE,WHERE I THINK THEY ARE UNFAIR IS YOUR WORK HARD BST YOUR TAIL EVERYDAY. THE BIG THING TO THEM IS U BETTER B HERE ON TIME, NOT SICK TO MUCH ,IF U HAVE FAMILY
by val 03/26/07 10:48 PM
I DISAGREE WITH THIS PAYCUT JUNK, I BEEN WITH THE COMPANY SINCE I WAS 17 NOW IM 28 , SOMEONE AT MY JOB JUST GOT CUT.25 THEY SAID HE DONT TALK 2 CUSTOMER'S MUCH BT THE MANAGER'S DON'T SEE U 24-7 SAY HOW WOULD THEY KNOW. IT'S WRONG AND NOT RIGHT!!!!!!
by LJ 03/26/07 10:37 PM
4% of workers got a pay decrease...according to the title of this article, those are high performers. Reality is that they are the bottom 4% of performers. Looks like most of the comments here are by bottom feeders, too. Misery loves company!
by Lynn 03/26/07 09:57 PM
I would much rather have an older retired person bagging my groceries or at the cash register than these 16-17 year old high school students who just talk to each other while I stand there waiting in line. The older people are more genuine!
by Carolyn 03/26/07 09:53 PM
Publix charges the highest prices but sounds like the cheapest place to work for. A ten year dedicated employee getting a cut in pay? Think Publix just knows can replace with a 15 y/o kid who only expects min wage. Will avoid my once favorite store!
by DMC 03/26/07 09:45 PM
My mom has worked for Publix since the mid-1980s Her most recent review resulted in a pay cut also. She told me the major reason she still works there is the health insurance benefit, which isn't all that great.
by Victoria 03/26/07 08:57 PM
I have always met kind, considerate employees at Publix (VS other stores..) and am appalled at the way they are treating their employees. If someone doesnt do a good job, then fire them. This makes it too easy to cut back on payroll. Lawsuit!!
by Jane 03/26/07 08:30 PM
I'm up for a eval in a few weeks, I'm holding my breath. My mgr & I have a so/so relationship. I work my tail off, always asking for the oppty. to learn more. Much to my dismay, my mgr blows it off. So successful, not superior is b/c I'm at his mercy
by Brian 03/26/07 06:37 PM
I'd bet real money the members of what has been labeled "the greatest generation" are far more conscientious of their work ethic than the corporate "supervisors" that implement that plan. Publix is just using the little guy as an excuse. No, I'm 44.
by Candy 03/26/07 04:56 PM
re:comments by Brenda-Only F/T employees get benefits right away. P/T wait 1 yr or 1000 continued hours worked-no sick time,no pd holidays, no vacation time. I just started working for them & already found it's NOT the ideal company to work for.
by Jim 03/26/07 04:44 PM
They've been cutting truck drivers pay for years. Cutting the pay on their runs then making them work longer hours to make up for it. Ask a driver the last time they got any kind of raise.
by Bruce 03/26/07 04:34 PM
Reviews are correctly known as "merit reviews" in HR circles. People are not entitled to raises; their performance must merit it. If O'Connor was not performing up to the high standards to earn the high (for baggers)pay,why should he receive it?
by al 03/26/07 03:48 PM
Not sure were you people live. But florida is a right to work state. If they want to fire people, they can simply fire them. So work harder, find a differnet job. At 8 dollars an hour, can find other work.
by Josh 03/26/07 03:07 PM
Discriminating against the older folks seems like the opposite of what they should be doing. All the teenaged/young employees at my local Publix are horribly rude and couldn't bag gorceries if their life depended on it.
by Ellen 03/26/07 02:41 PM
Boycott Publix.
by Tony 03/26/07 02:35 PM
I want to know how many corporate people received pay cuts if any for lack of performance. What a cheap outfit. Don't cut the pay of the people who do all the work, cut the pay of the stupid mnager who hired them and failed to properly train.
by Sue 03/26/07 01:33 PM
I hope store managers read this: HEADS UP! Tell your cashiers/baggers to STOP CHEWING GUM in the faces of your patrons. They look and sound like cows. Watch what happens after groceries are bagged - if they don't hand them to the customer...bye-bye!
by Bull 03/26/07 01:17 PM
Maybe the St Pete Times could do a store on How "company greed" affects the citizens of our state............
by Georgefromthepast 03/26/07 12:15 PM
I can't believe whats going on .It's the begining of the end. Unhappy associates
by Bj 03/26/07 11:07 AM
Management through intimidation is backwards and never works. Publix's new policy is too subjective. If an employee's reviewer simply does not like him/her (for whatever reason, i.e., dosen't walk fast enough), then forget it, the review is biased.
by Joe 03/26/07 10:33 AM
In my 70's, working at Publix 10 years,last evaluation SUPERIOR !! I'm facing a pay cut if I don't improve!!!! It's just not fair!!!!!

Miami Police New Tack against Terror.

2007-03-22T00:25:00.000-07:00

Miami Police Take New Tack Against Terror
Nov 28 09:28 PM US/Eastern
By CURT ANDERSON
Associated Press Writer

MIAMI (AP) - Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.

Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.

"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.

The operations will keep terrorists off guard, Fernandez said. He said al-Qaida and other terrorist groups plot attacks by putting places under surveillance and watching for flaws and patterns in security.

Police Chief John Timoney said there was no specific, credible threat of an imminent terror attack in Miami. But he said the city has repeatedly been mentioned in intelligence reports as a potential target.

Timoney also noted that 14 of the 19 hijackers who took part in the Sept. 11 attacks lived in South Florida at various times and that other alleged terror cells have operated in the area.

Both uniformed and plainclothes police will ride buses and trains, while others will conduct longer-term surveillance operations.

"People are definitely going to notice it," Fernandez said. "We want that shock. We want that awe. But at the same time, we don't want people to feel their rights are being threatened. We need them to be our eyes and ears."

Howard Simon, executive director of ACLU of Florida, said the Miami initiative appears aimed at ensuring that people's rights are not violated.

"What we're dealing with is officers on street patrol, which is more effective and more consistent with the Constitution," Simon said. "We'll have to see how it is implemented."

Mary Ann Viverette, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, said the Miami program is similar to those used for years during the holiday season to deter criminals at busy places such as shopping malls.

"You want to make your presence known and that's a great way to do it," said Viverette, police chief in Gaithersburg, Md. "We want people to feel they can go about their normal course of business, but we want them to be aware."

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

ROVE NO TRANSCRIPT NO OATH IN PRIVATE

2007-03-20T14:12:00.000-07:00

Back to Story - Help
Yahoo! News
White House offers interview with Rove

By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

The White House pushed back Tuesday against Democrats demanding answers on the firings of federal prosecutors, refusing to allow President Bush's top aides to testify publicly and under oath about their roles in the dismissals.

Bush gave his embattled attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, a boost during an early morning call to his longtime friend and planned to end the day with a public statement in support of him.

Several Democrats, including presidential hopefuls Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barrack Obama, Joe Biden and John Edwards, have called for Gonzales' resignation. So have a handful of Republican lawmakers.

The Senate, meanwhile, voted to strip Gonzales of his authority to fill U.S. attorney vacancies without Senate confirmation. Democrats contend the Justice Department and White House purged eight federal prosecutors, some of whom were leading political corruption investigations, after a change in the Patriot Act gave Gonzales the new authority.

"What happened in this case sends a signal really through intimidation by purge: 'Don't quarrel with us any longer,'" said Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (news, bio, voting record), D-R.I., a former U.S. attorney who spent much of Monday evening paging through 3,000 documents released by the Justice Department.

White House Counsel Fred Fielding told lawmakers they could interview presidential counselor Karl Rove, former White House Counsel Harriet Miers and their deputies — but only on the president's terms: in private, "without the need for an oath" and without a transcript.

"We trust and believe that the accommodation we offer here, in addition to what the Department of Justice has provided, should satisfy the committee's interests," Fielding wrote in a letter to the House and Senate judiciary committees' Democratic chairmen and senior Republicans.

Republicans cast the offer as fair and virtually unprecedented. Democrats rejected it and vowed to start authorizing subpoenas as soon as Wednesday for the White House aides.

"It's sort of giving us the opportunity to talk to them, but not giving us the opportunity to get to the bottom of what really happened here," said Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.

Even without oaths, the aides would be legally required to tell the truth to Congress. But without a transcript of their comments, "it would be almost meaningless to say that they would be under some kind of legal sanction," Schumer complained.

Fielding's meeting on Capitol Hill came a few hours after Bush personally gave Gonzales a boost during an early morning phone call — their first conversation since the president had acknowledged mistakes by his longtime friend and lawmakers of both parties had called for Gonzales' ouster.

Bush was to counter those with a statement of support, the White House said. The president was also to talk about his position on the offer Fielding made to Congress.

The White House offered to arrange interviews with Rove, Miers, deputy White House counsel William Kelley and J. Scott Jennings, a deputy to White House political director Sara Taylor, who works for Rove.

"Such interviews would be private and conducted without the need for an oath, transcript, subsequent testimony or the subsequent issuance of subpoenas," Fielding said in his letter.

He said the documents released by the Justice Department "do not reflect that any U.S. attorney was replaced to interfere with a pending or future criminal investigation or for any other improper reason."

Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
Copyright © 2007 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Questions or Comments
Privacy Policy -Terms of Service - Copyright/IP Policy - Ad Feedback

2006 Election Ushers in the Casinos ....

2007-03-20T13:11:00.000-07:00

"If the state were to lower the tax rate you would see a much greater capital investment in the gaming facilities," said Joseph Weinert, vice president of Spectrum Gaming Group, a gaming consultancy. Weinert also said the next governor may have some wiggle room in negotiating with gambling interests that could see slots added to pari-mutuel facilities statewide. While Crist and Davis say they are against gambling "expansion," adding slots to existing pari-mutuels may not fit into that description, Weinert said.

For state's gambling industry, a new era begins with Tuesday's elections

By ADRIAN SAINZ
Associated Press
Posted November 2 2006, 11:25 AM EST

FORT LAUDERDALE -- For eight years, the state's growing gambling industry has faced a staunch opponent in the governor's mansion.

Gov. Jeb Bush has never hidden his disdain for gambling, including his fight against adding Las Vegas-style slot machines at Broward County pari-mutuel facilities. State and Broward voters approved the machines, however, and he grudgingly signed the law governing them.

But Bush is out in January due to term limits, and either Republican Charlie Crist or Democrat Jim Davis will confront further growth attempts by the industry, which has pumped big money into Florida's election.

Crist's campaign has received at least $5,000 from individuals with gambling connections while the state Republican Party has received more than $125,000. Davis' campaign has received at least $1,500 from individuals with gambling connections and the state Democratic Party has received at least $250,000.

Despite those donations, both say they are opposed to further gambling in the state. Tuesday's winner will also have to negotiate with Indian tribes over the Vegas-style slots they'll be able to install in their casinos statewide because of the Broward vote.

``Neither Jim Davis nor Charlie Crist are pro-gambling, but either of them are less vehemently anti-gambling than Jeb was," said state Sen. Steve Geller, D-Hallandale Beach. A gaming supporter, he is crafting a bill to change some of the state's slot machine regulations. ``Neither of the two guys will be great for the industry."

The state already has poker, horse and dog racing and jai-alai, which saw $331 million in wagers through the first eight months of the year. It also has untaxed ``cruises to nowhere" that provide Vegas-style gambling once they reach international waters.

The Indian casinos, including the thriving Seminole Hard Rock casinos in Tampa and Hollywood and Miccosukee Indian Gaming west of Miami, have poker and video lottery machines that are similar to slots. The Indian casinos do not pay state taxes because they are owned by sovereign tribes _ although other states have negotiated deals allowing their tribes Vegas-style games like blackjack and roulette in exchange for a tax. Bush's attempt to negotiate with Florida's tribes stalled earlier this year.

After the Florida Gaming Summit in Hollywood last month, a statement posted on its Web site cited research from Wachovia Capital Markets that the estimated 6,000 Broward slot machines will generate at least $700 million in wagering annually. The first are expected to open later this month.

Gambling has its share of opponents. In a statement on its Web site, the Christian Coalition of Florida says gambling is a danger to society that produces ``huge financial and social costs" that puts families in risk.

Still, the industry is intent on growth. According to Geller, many of the state's pari-mutuels outside Broward want their own slot machines to keep pace with Dania Jai-Alai, Pompano Park harness racing, Mardi Gras Track and Gaming Center and Gulfstream Park thoroughbred track.

Gulfstream and Pompano, known as ``racinos," are spending millions to improve their facilities ahead of the introduction of slots. At Pompano _ owned by Isle of Capri Casinos Inc. _ a new 157,000-square foot building includes space for 1,500 slot machines, a bar and four restaurants including a steakhouse and New York deli, at a cost of about $155 million. It's set to open early next year.

``We're not just throwing slot machines in a room," said Doug Shipley, vice president of racinos for Isle of Capri. ``We're striving for a total entertainment destination."

Meanwhile, casino and gaming companies donated heavily to federal and state campaigns.

In state races, including the gubernatorial and legislative contests, gambling interests doled out more than $1.8 million, according to followthemoney.org. It's a Web site run by The Institute on Money in State Politics that tracks state campaign contributions. Pompano Park alone contributed $431,550, the Web site showed.

In Florida congressional races, gambling interests contributed more than $67,000, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

And, a pro-gambling political action committee called Yes for Better Schools and Jobs has received more than $7 million in contributions. The PAC is leading the campaign to again bring a slot machine measure before Miami-Dade County voters, who rejected slots last year when Broward voters approved them.

Geller said races for House and Senate seats also could affect gambling's future. He wants to change some rules the state has affixed to slot operations, including lowering the tax rate on the machines from 50 percent to 35 percent. His bill also would call for an elimination of a 1,500 machines per pari-mutuel cap and allow ATMs and free or discounted drinks at locations where slot machines exist.

Many in the industry argue the 50 percent rate and other restrictions would limit economic development around the casinos _ restaurants, nightclubs, shops and entertainment venues.

``If the state were to lower the tax rate you would see a much greater capital investment in the gaming facilities," said Joseph Weinert, vice president of Spectrum Gaming Group, a gaming consultancy.

Weinert also said the next governor may have some wiggle room in negotiating with gambling interests that could see slots added to pari-mutuel facilities statewide. While Crist and Davis say they are against gambling ``expansion," adding slots to existing pari-mutuels may not fit into that description, Weinert said.

``It's just seen as a different form of gambling ... in a place where it already exists," he said.
©2004 Michael Pollock's Gaming Observer. Designed and Hosted by

http://www.fsupikes.com/reunions.htm

2007-03-20T10:02:00.000-07:00

* Florida State Pikes Now Officially A "Dynasty"
* 2006 Overall Intramural Champions
* Charlie Crist for Governor

President's Monthly
Message

Fall Rush 2006 is here and we are actively recruiting new members.
...Read more
Chapter Achievements
Pikes Illustrated is the 16-page, color magazine published annually

by our Chapter as a way of communicating our success to our alumni and to prospective members. ...Read more
2006 - Delta Lambda, Florida State University Chapter
Address questions and comments to the Webmistress

Brother Charlie Crist '76 Becomes Florida's 44th Governor

Charlie Crist during his College days at FSU

Charlie at Pike Pig Roast with SMC Vern Vokus '76 and Kevin Smith '78. Charlie served Delta Lambda as Vice President (IMC) and Little Sister Coordinator as well as quarterback of our IM football team.

In this famous photograph, Charlie accepts the 1977 Homecoming Chief Trophy from 1976 Homecoming Chief Fred Miller '73. Fred started at linebacker and fullback for FSU until brought down by injuries. He volunteered for cheerleader and continued to lead the Seminoles from the sideline. Fred Miller was President of Pi Kappa Alpha, and Charlie Crist was Vice President of Pi Kappa Alpha, and Vice President of the FSU Student Body.

Charlie served Florida State University as Vice President of the Student Body. Charlie and date at Sheridan Cavitt Memorial Blow-out. Charlie also served Delta Lambda as Little Sister Coordinator.

A natural leader and gifted athlete, Charlie quarterbacked Delta Lambda's IM Football teams. In the background, Alan "NightOwl" Winslette ' 77 along with teammates Ken Furth '75 and Russell Sexton '77 can be identified.

The Pikes are among the gubernatorial candidate's formidable
cross section of financial backers

Pikes, from left, are Brian Ditthardt '78, Bill Gregory '77, Jim Kidder '79,
Stuart McKown '78, Tom Wheeler '78, Crist '76, Lou Andreanna '79, Brent Sembler '78, Jay Hurley '79, Mike Fernandez '77.

By STEVE BOUSQUET
Times Staff Writer

Tallahassee -- The Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity brothers from Florida State -- "Pikes," as they are known -- do more than hold reunions and cheer for Seminole football.

They also raise money for a frat brother, Attorney General Charlie Crist, who's on his way to shattering all fundraising records in his quest to become Florida's next governor.

Crist raised $10.6- million through June in the first stage of the race, the Sept. 5 Republican primary against Tom Gallagher, who has raised $7.8 million. Crist collected a chunk of it at a reception attended by at least 10 frat members, including Tom Wheeler, an FSU Classmate who has a high-level job in the attorney general's office.

"You kind of feel obligated, but in a good way," said Jay Hurley, a Fort Lauderdale lawyer and Pike who sent Crist $500. "He's a member of the fraternity. There's a lot of camaraderie there."

Crist's fraternity fundraising is helped by the fact that another FSU Pike is Brent Sembler, a wealthy St. Petersburg developer who is finance chairman of Crist's campaign. Even with a $500 limit on individual contributions, Sembler corporations have funneled at least $33,000 to Crist's campaign.

Sembler and the Pikes are but two examples of how Crist has built a formidable fundraising network, not just in Florida but across the country.

"It's family and friends, by and large. It's not rocket science," Crist says. "It's a matter of people you meet along the way."

Gallagher and his supporters have repeatedly criticized Crist for raking in large sums from gambling interests and trial lawyers, sources Gallagher uses to question Crist's conservative values.

Gallagher's campaign cites dog and horse tracks and jai alai frontons that support Crist, as well as prominent Florida trial lawyers such as John Morgan, Fred Levin, Steve Yerrid and Gary Pajcic, who are reliable donors to liberal Democratic candidates as well.

Crist says a political contribution doesn't mean he supports the donor's political agenda. "It means they support mine," he says.

Asked why Crist has raised so much more money, Gallagher said, "Because he has trial lawyers and gambling interests."

But Crist's universe of financial backers is more diverse and complex than that.

For more than a year, he has hop-scotched from one fundraiser to the next, sometimes attending three in one day.

In some cases, donors have bundled dozens of checks from separate paper corporations from a single address, multiplying the $500 contribution limit into an among many times that much.

Some examples:

* At least 30 companies owned by Ken Underwood of Ponte Vedra Beach gave the maximum $500 to Crist, for a total of $15,000, and half of the checks were written within days of the firms' creation. Underwood, who holds a state contract to publish driver safety handbooks, says of Crist: "We've been friends for several years."
* Crist has received at least $6,500 from Miami companies owned by Sergio Pino, a prominent builder and developer and supporter of Republican candidates. The Miami Daily Business Review has reported that Pino is subject of a federal public corruption investigation along with Miami-Dade County Commissioner Jose "Pepe" Diaz.

CRIST'S OUT-OF-
STATE MONEY

Most of the Charlie Crist's campaign contributions have come from Florida individuals and businesses. Here are the five largest sources of out-of-state money in Crist's campaign. Totals are through June 30.
1. New York $181,343
2. California $166,250
3. Michigan $152,850
4. Georgia $148,012
5. Texas $120,228
Source: Florida Division of Elections (www.dos.state.fl.us)
* Crist is popular with owners of apartment complexes in the Detroit suburb of Southfield, Mich. Twenty of them gave Crist $500 each, for a total of $10,000. The apartments are owned by the firm that owns Hollywood Greyhound Track, one of four Florida parimutuels that will soon offer Las Vegas-style slot machines. Crist upset gambling opponents last year by declining to handle a court case challenging the slot's legality.
* Two fellow state attorneys general, Greg Abbott in Texas and Jon Bruning in Nebraska, have hosted Crist fundraisers. One of Crist's Texas donors is Kent Hance, best known for defeating a young George W. Bush in a race for a West Texas congressional seat in 1978.
* Florida nursing home operators, angry at Gov. Jeb Bush for vetoing a rate increase in the state budget, set out to raise $50,000 for Crist last month "to ensure that this (veto) does not happen again."
* The Art Rooney family of Pittsburgh, which owns the National Football League Steelers, rounded up thousands of dollars for Crist. So have entrepreneur Donald Trump; David Marsh, a Birmingham, Ala., lawyer who went to law school with Crist; and legions of lobbyists in Tallahassee.

One obvious connection to the nursing home contributions and the Rooney money is Brian Ballard, a Tallahassee lobbyist who represents both clients in Florida.

Ballard, who prides himself on his own political network, remembers walking into a room of Crist fundraisers at the Marriott at Tampa's airport last year and not recognizing most of the people.

"I didn't know any of the people, or very few of them," Ballard said, "and it was elbow to elbow."

The group reconvened last month, a day before the June 30 deadline for accepting contributions for the quarter. At the "Founders' Round-Up," each supporter was asked to bring $10,000.

Crist claims to have more than 28,000 contributors so far. He said he had no idea why he received a $500 check from the Sand Hill Recycling Center of Auburn, Ala., or $500 from Dean Webster, a retiree in Kennebunkport, Maine.

"Not a clue," Crist said.

The more individual donors of $250 or less he has from Florida, the greater the amount of state matching funds he's eligible to receive under a Florida Law that provides partial public financing of statewide elections.

The state will start issuing those checks next week. But first, Crist will celebrate his 50th birthday on Monday with a party at the Sirata Beach Resort in St. Pete Beach.

The party is also a $500-per-person campaign fundraiser.

Published by the St. Pete Times
Sunday July 23, 2006

Home | Alumni Updates | Brother Contacts | Chapter Achievements | Contact Us | Legends Campaign
Links | Preamble | President's Monthly Message | Rush Recommendations

Florida Tampa Gambling Deals http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-findians08mar08,0,3005799.story?coll=sfla-news-florida

2007-03-20T08:49:00.001-07:00

Crist wants to negotiate gambling deal with Seminoles to boost revenues

By Linda Kleindienst
Tallahassee Bureau Chief
Posted March 8 2007

TALLAHASSEE – In a dramatic departure from his predecessor, Gov. Charlie Crist said Wednesday he is willing to negotiate a gambling compact with the Seminole Tribe -- a move that could bring millions into Florida's cash-strapped treasury.

"I think that's the smarter way to go," Crist said.

LocalLinks
Former Gov. Jeb Bush, a staunch opponent of gambling, stonewalled negotiations with the tribe, which wants to install Las Vegas-style slot machines similar to those voters approved for four Broward County pari-mutuels.

No meetings have yet been held or scheduled with the tribe, but Crist said it would benefit state taxpayers to strike a deal that provides money to the state in exchange for expanded gaming rights for the Seminoles.

Barry Richard, an attorney for the Seminoles, said the tribe might be willing to pay the state for the right to have more than the 1,500 slot machines that the pari-mutuels are limited to, or other types of casino games.

"We could enter in an agreement with the state that it gets a certain percentage of revenue for machines over 1,500," Richard said, although he said he had no idea how much the Seminoles would be willing to pay.

The possibility of generating new tax dollars through the Indian-run casinos comes as Crist and legislators are expecting a drop in sales tax and real estate tax revenues from Florida's cooled-down economy. A panel made up of representatives of the governor's office, Legislature and the Department of Revenue has warned the state could bring in up to $800 million less than expected in the next budget year.

On Tuesday, in a move that could compel the state to come to the bargaining table, the Seminoles filed suit in Miami claiming they are going to suffer "significant economic harm" because of their competitive disadvantage in the slot machine area. Filed against the U.S. Department of the Interior and Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne, the suit asks the federal court to force the U.S. government to develop regulations that will allow the Seminoles to have the same type of slot machines as their commercial Broward rivals.

Because of a constitutional amendment adopted by state voters in 2004 -- and later approved by Broward voters -- two racetrack casinos already are operating in Hallandale Beach, at Gulfstream Park and Mardi Gras Racetrack and Gaming Center. Pompano Park Harness Track is scheduled to debut its slot machines next month and Dania Jai Alai is planning to open in 2008.

The tribe has three casinos operating in Broward -- one in Coconut Creek and two near Hollywood -- with the largest at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino. But the tribe is limited to bingo-style slot machines that generate less revenue and are less popular than the Las Vegas-style slots.

Despite the lawsuit, indications are the tribe would prefer to make a deal with Crist.

"They would prefer to be operating in cooperation with the state ... they don't want to have constant fights with the state," Richard said.

The tribe currently has seven gambling locations statewide with almost 8,600 bingo-style slot machines and 230 poker tables that generated $1.3 billion in revenue in 2005, Richard said. The state gets no money from the tribe while the pari-mutuels have to pay a 50 percent tax on their slot profits.

The Seminoles argue they are entitled to Las Vegas-type slots under a provision of the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, which gives tribes the same gambling options featured elsewhere in the state. Because Broward pari-mutuels are now allowed to have them, the Indians want the same.

Read all 38 comments »
Type in your comments to post to the forum
You are currently logged in as . Not ?
Name
Registration Welcome to Topix.net Forums! Please fill out the form below to set up an account and post your comment. If you are a returning user, click here to log in.

Topix Username

Will display with your forum posts

Email Address

Will never be shown to other users

Password

At least five characters (letters and numbers)

Confirm Password

Birthdate

Required by COPPA
Login Sign in with your existing Topix.net account and write your comments below. Don't have an account?

Email Address

Password

Forgot your password?

Comments

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-findians08mar08,0,3005799.story?coll=sfla-news-florida

2007-03-20T08:49:00.000-07:00

http://www.antonnews.com/oysterbayenterprisepilot/2003/10/31/news/

2007-03-20T06:14:00.000-07:00

Matinecock Lodge Demolished After Fire
Smoke was still curling up from the left-hand side of the lodge. On the left, firemen are climbing the aerial ladder so that they can tie lines to it and drag it down into the center of the building. The third floor and attic area were a large open area where the Masonic Temple was located.
Many Artifacts Saved, Masons Promise to Rebuild the Lodge
By Dagmar Fors Karppi

There is nothing left of the Matinecock Lodge building at 14 West Main Street in Oyster Bay but a pile of rubble surrounded by chain link fencing. The fencing was just recently used to guard the new walkway being created from Audrey Avenue to West Main Street as part of a town revitalization project. Although the lodge was lost to fire on Saturday morning, Oct. 25, the Masons promise that it will rise like a Pheonix from the ashes left behind.

The Matinecock Lodge was ablaze early Saturday morning, Oct. 25, when the fire company received an alarm for smoke that was detected on East Main Street at about 2:30 a.m. They didn't get the address with the information but were quickly able to find the fire on Main Street, said Oyster Bay Fire Company No. 1 First Assistant Chief Anthony DeCarolis. Atlantic Steamer Fire Company Chief Richard Warner and First Assistant Chief DeCarolis were in charge of fighting the fire.

The actual timeline and cause of the fire is being investigated. O.B.F. Co. 1 First Assistant Chief Anthony DeCarolis said, "According to the fire marshal, they believe the fire was electrical in nature and started in the basement.

A neighbor across the street reported hearing an explosion and I reported that to the fire marshal on Sunday," he said. "We estimated the fire started about four hours before we were alerted. When the first firefighters went into the building the floor was already burned through. It was a very significantly advanced fire. Our guess is that it began sometime around 10:30 to 11 p.m. on Friday, Oct. 24."

Fire Marshal Joe Whittaker said on Monday, Oct. 27, that the cause of the fire is still undetermined. He said the report of someone hearing an explosion could be explained by the windows coming out. "The force of the fire blowing out the windows can sound like an explosion. The windows are the weakest part of the building. There were investigators looking at the basement on Monday, so the case of the fire is still undetermined," he repeated.

Mr. De Carolis said when they got 15 to 20 feet inside the building they realized a substantial part of the floor had collapsed into the basement. He said the fire started in the basement and went to the first floor and up to the second floor. "The floor was spongy and moving and way too unstable," he said. He explained the "balloon" construction of the walls left them open from the basement all the way to the top floor. "If you drop a quarter it goes down to the basement and the same with the fire, it goes all the way to the top floor. The lodge was built of older wood, drier wood and very heavily constructed as older buildings were. It had very large structural members in the basement, that were already burned through when we arrived. They were dry, but they were big," he explained.

When they arrived at the scene, one of their priorities was to protect the two landmark buildings next to the lodge. They hosed down Raynham Hall Museum to the west and Snouder's Corner Drug Store to the east. All three buildings are Town of Oyster Bay Landmarks.

About 14 fire companies from the Fifth Battalion fought the blaze including the Atlantic Steamer, Oyster Bay Fire Company No. 1, East Norwich, Sea Cliff, Cold Spring Harbor, Glenwood Landing, Jericho, Hicksville, Locust Valley, Bayville and Syosset companies.

"It was a long night," said one of the firemen.

Someone nearby commented, "It's a shame. That was a good-looking building."

The Matinecock Lodge is a Town of Oyster Bay Landmark, as are the two buildings surrounding it, Raynham Hall Museum to the west and Snouder's Corner Drugstore to the east. One of the concerns in fighting the fire was to see that it didn't spread to the other historic buildings, so they hosed down both sites and kept a watch on them.

The Matinecock Lodge is also a Masonic Museum that is visited by Masons from around the country. Luckily, the firemen were responsive to the importance of the artifacts and went into the building, while it was burning to retrieve many of the items.

One of the items lost was a painting of Theodore Roosevelt on horseback; he was a member of the lodge. Matinecock Lodge Master Efraim Azamitia said, "This has been an absolute tragedy. We feel we've lost our home, but we are meeting on Wednesday, Nov. 5 for a Second Degree ceremony. We just had a Masonic First Degree ceremony and we had scheduled a Second Degree ceremony and we will now hold it at the donated Atlantic Steamer firehouse. The Masons have been here for 200 years. The firemen have been angels of heaven," he said. "They went through the building while the fire was ablaze and picked through stuff upstairs and brought down our gavels and things we thought we lost. That includes the Theodore Roosevelt Bible. Everything is damaged and should take a lot of work. But we are feeling very positive about the club and the community's response."

He said when the firemen started bringing the artifacts out of the building the Masons formed a chain and passed the items along. They were saddened at the loss of the painting of TR, and said Master Azamitia, "All we have is a photograph of it."

Mason Warren Obes said, "We were able to salvage a lot of the artifacts. The Alantic Steamer Company let us lay the things out in one of their garage bays." They also offered their meeting room for their meetings. Mr. Obes said he got a call about the fire at 3 a.m. from Mason Norman Youngs who has a relative who is a fireman.

The Masons had nothing but praise for the firefighters who also salvaged the stained glass window that was in the east wall. The firemen sawed it out of the wooden frame and stabilized it with wood. Later in the day, Masons Mike Applequist and Deacon Tastensen were looking over the artifacts in the firehouse. Mr. Tastensen was glad their Masonic tools in their leather case were safe, and said of the tragedy, "Nobody got hurt. The lodge didn't burn, the building we met in did. We're well insured. We're not leaving Oyster Bay and we will try to reconstruct the same way but with modern safety features." The Matinecock Masonic Historic Society owns the building, the Masonic Lodge rented their location from them. The two entities are parts of the same parent organization.

Mr. Tastensen and Mr. Applequist were at the Atlantic Steamer firehouse Saturday around 5 p.m. covering the large nails protruding from the wood that was stabilizing the stained glass window with cardboard to prevent anyone from injuring their hands. Mr. Applequist said they had just gotten the window back from a restorer and said, they would return it to that shop to be repaired again. Although they don't have all the glass (at the moment) they believed it can be restored. About 60 percent of the window was intact, said John Hammond Matinecock Masonic Lodge historian.

Mr. Hammond said the artifacts they recovered were soot covered and water soaked. "The TR application is intact as is the Bible Mr. Roosevelt was inducted on. The firemen went into the building while it was still burning to get the artifacts out," said Mr. Hammond. The Masons kept mentioning the brave work of the firefighters and how much they appreciated their efforts on the Masons' behalf. Mason Bob Kelly credited firefighter Bob Gorney for carrying out the TR Bible. He said when the firemen arrived there was lots of smoke. Flames shot up from the chimneys on both sides of the building.

As they talked, Barbara and John Sheridan of Look Who's Cooking came out of their store with a tray of warm pretzels and a carton filled with cups of coffee for the firemen.

Standing nearby was the Monaghan family, Connie and Brian and their children J.J. and Brianne. He was holding up her shingle: "Constance Monaghan, P.T." that had been on the Active Motion sign outside the Matinecock Lodge, where the business was located. She said a co-worker called her at 10:30 a.m. to tell her about the fire. Ms. Monaghan said most of their paperwork was saved and they tried to get parts of their computers, but doubted they were able to do so. Later as the building was being razed, you could see the computer monitor framed in the empty window, after the porch was taken off the front of the building.

"It's such a loss," said Brian Monaghan. "Our children had their Christening and Communion parties downstairs at the lodge." The lodge was used as a catering facility by members of the community.

Oyster Bay resident Brian Land of David Shuldiner, Inc. was watching the demolition work. His firm is in the architectural metal and glass business and does high rise construction office space and sometimes restores stained glass. His company was founded in 1888, so he had a feeling of affinity for the Matinecock Lodge as well as the demolition work going on. "We worked on a lot of buildings in the city after 9/11," he said. The missing pieces of the stained glass window he said would not be a problem, as long as they had a photograph to follow.

At about 4 p.m. on Saturday, Oct. 25, First Assistant Chief Anthony DeCarolis said the fire was still going on in the basement. It was too hard to get to and too dangerous to do so. That was why the building was being demolished as Masons and local residents watched. The Town of Oyster Bay had assessed the situation and declared that the building had to come down. Town workers helped with the demolition work.

As the crowd watched, in the rear of the building payloaders were knocking down the back of the building and carrying the debris out to West Main Street where a large white Town of Oyster Bay refuse carting truck was being loaded. As history was poured into the dumpster it rumbled and shook. The debris from the fire was being carted by the Town of Oyster Bay to their Miller Place facility so that the Masons would be able to go through the material to see if they could rescue anything else. On Monday, Oct. 27, Masons were at the facility and sifting through the remainder of the debris as it was loaded onto trucks, reported Mr. DeCarolis. He said on Monday, Oct. 27, "The two Oyster Bay Fire Companies and the Town of Oyster Bay were able to salvage some of the memorabilia from the building. As late as 45 minutes ago, (about 11 a.m.) the fire department and the town were able to recover the VFW Post #8033 rifles. They were in an enclosure and were damaged but are believed to be salvageable. The rifles were found by OBF Co. No. 1 Second Assistant Chief Frank Mantegari, a town employee. The town was in charge of the demolition and removal and the fire company was there into Sunday because the fire was inaccessible and still burning as the demolition was going on," Mr. DeCarolis said.

Mason James Foote, a TR impersonator had been at the scene since 5:20 a.m. "There goes a historic structure." He said in a case like this TR would say: "Do the best you can with what you have where you are," and added, "This is what this lodge is going to do. Thank God for the Atlantic Steamer Company. They've got a lot of our stuff for us in one of their truck bays. That's community spirit," he said.

As the payloader worked at knocking down the building, the smell of burning wood became more prevalent. Standing by were men from the Fire Marshal's office. Fire Marshal Joseph Whittaker said they were not able to investigate the specific area where they believed the fire began. "The top has to go down. As long as it is up, we can't go inside." One of the problems in fighting the fire is that there are always fire pockets that they can't get at, he said.

Robert Crawford, a Vernon student was taking notes in preparation of writing an article for the school newspaper. He said when he arrived between 11 a.m. and noon there was smoke everywhere. Three hours after, he was still watching and taking snapshots. He caught a picture of one of the eastern brick chimney being pulled down by the payloader dragging the line.

Chris Bagan, in eighth grade at Oyster Bay High School arrived at the fire at 10 a.m. and said there was a lot of smoke. His father, firefighter Brian Bagan got to the fire at 8 a.m. "It's sad. It's a shame it happened," he said. Sitting there he watched the historic demolition of the Oyster Bay landmark.

He too reported that they salvaged a lot of things that were being kept at the firehouse. "They were handing things from inside the building," he said. "It's amazing it's still burning. It's a shame, they just spent so much money on fixing it up."

He said the firemen tried to take the east chimney down with a sledgehammer. "Smoke was coming out of the chimney as they tried to knock it down," he said. That was when the decided to tie a hose-line around it to pull it down.

A payloader used the hose-line to pull down the front of the wall and the red seats that lined the north and south walls of the Masonic Temple on the third floor of the building were exposed. The red fabric of the seats was blackened. The red seats, linked together in a row, looked like a caterpillar suspended across the upper floor, said Chris Bagan.

By 5 p.m. the left side of the building was still standing and the two payloaders looked like two of TV's "Battle-Bots" fighting as they faced each other and charged at the front of the building. They demolished it, turned it into kindling and loaded it onto a town carting truck. At the scene, as more of the east side of the building was exposed, more smoke was rising from that side of the burning back area.

Three other organizations have lost their homes in the lodge. The lodge was used by the Oyster Bay VFW Post #8033, as well as two German lodges: the Trinity Lodge and the Socrates Lodge. The German lodges conduct their meetings in their native language to hold onto their traditions. They are the last German-speaking lodges to hold on to that, said Mr. Tasteson. Mr. Applequist said they can attend those meetings and still understand what is going on since they follow the same format.

They looked around the firehouse and talked about the artifacts which included a cornerstone from another lodge. "Cuban Masons gave a stone to the lodge in honor of TR, pre-Castro," said Mr. Applequist.

Standing in a pile were about a dozen copies of Matinecock Light, slightly water-damaged; the book on the Oyster Bay Masons was written by John Hammond. He will have several new chapters to add to the book.

http://tech1.dccs.upenn.edu/xconnect/v6/i2/g/mccall.html

2007-03-19T21:25:00.000-07:00

text mode CrossConnect previous next

Home
Issue Contents
Contributors
E-mail Us

d o w n a t c l u b l i m b o, d a n c i n g o n h i s t o r y 's u n m a r k e d g r a v e o f d i s c a r d e d l i e s

--- J E F F M C C A L L

i'm sitting in my office trying to steal a jingle for Ford Trucks from Bob Dylan mp3s when I hear Rudy in the other room tell Margo that a plane just hit the World Trade Center. then another plane crashed into it, and then a third. someone's calling bomb threats into the White House and the Pentagon is on fire. No one can get in or out. suicide car bombers in Washington. the country is under attack. and from the back of my stomach a feeling I know i'm going to have to get used to is beginning to seep in- everything is not going to be ok.
but I was wrong, everything is fine. everything is just fine...
it's January now and everything is just peachy.
America is dropping the tons
the Taliban is on the run,
hey this War thing's kinda fun,
'The Ultimate Evil's Day is Done!'
the world must be safe for the Pentagon Sons
and triple beef patties on buttered buns...
can a WAR on TERRORISM ever really be WON?
Will AMERICA Have it's DAY in the SUN?
And if it does
will it be
the America
that's We
the People
and not
the tools
of corporate money?

they sent us home, so I walked home simply stunned by what a gorgeous, cool blue day it was. squirrels feasting on Cheetos from the garbage behind Wawa... traffic cops getting dancy for they're own entertainment at the crux of four lanes going to one due to new construction- Tangled up in Trucks- honks of gaseaters effervescing real invisible bubbles up to the big clear blue round, emissions wavy to and through this thing that looks like nothing, save
a lonely wisp of cloud hung midway in the sky...
and nature didn't seem to mind
6 thousand people just died.

television, however, minded very much.
-this thing was MasterMinded....and not on a Monday, but a Tuesday- has anyone noticed the lack of Arab democracies? -covered in soot, from head to toe, he just couldn't- hHuge network of international terrorist hharbored by rogue- Cowardly Fearmongering Freedom Hating, but not that people should Hate the Islamic doctrine, for what it's worth, it's Evil People We're- Full Of Gas, see? the planes were going cross country! flying bombs! like man guided- Trust in the American people to support a Full Mobilization to Free the nations of the world from Terrorism and Evil in all it's- newly proposed Office of HomeLand Security, which will be headed up by our own Governor, Tom Ridge, who has a long history of serving justice and rooting out- Dan Quayle, who is here with us tonight all the way from- hell yeah I'm enlisting, it's the Right thing for a Responsible- duck and cover might have been a joke yesterday, but experts say may prove that going back to the Old Ways, could possibly provide safety from- a loss of control for our Way of Life, and a werld unnfferrling into uh TOtally Feevered and candy colored chaos...
for nearly the whole week after the attack FOXNews runs without commercials under the banner "AMERICA UNITED". Phepherd Phmiff kept saying (Phepherd "for Unbiased Reporting, Turn to FOXNews, and FOXNewsdotcom" Phmiff) over and over, "We Know the psychology of people, and We Know how people are going to react, wouldn't you say doctor? -- and We Know that the grieving period for this sort of tragedy is about, what would you say, about...24, to maybe 38, perhaps, maybe even 72, but We Know that then, after the grieving period there is a prolonged feeling of ABSOLUTE RAGE. would you say this is generally The Correct Thinking on this doctor?--"
Dr. Expert- "well, yes, Phepherd, i'd have to agree-"
Phepherd- "and we can expect, from what We Know is proven, that when the period of mourning is over, say, 48 hours, then the rage sets in, and who then can we turn that anger against? for an answer to this we turn now to our expert on the Middle East, a picture of Osama Bin Laden holding a gun. Picture of Osama, it's a pleasure to have you on the show... can you give our viewers tonight, some insight, into the nature of the terrorist mind?
Osama: well Phep, I'm just insane with rage and there's no rational explanation for it. I hate all things Western and Un-Islamic and want to impose my view point over the infidels over all the world, but mainly I just want jet skis.
Phepherd: jet skis?
Osama: and your women too, of course... but even more than your women, I want your wave-runners. they look like so much fun. ...have you ever tried one?
Phepherd: yeah, we have a couple at the beach house at the Vineyard, they're a blast.
Osama: they look like fun, but as Allah forbids empty western pleasures, and... since we couldn't find a lake front cave in all of Afghanistan, I will never Jet-Ski. If I lived in America, my millions could get me a little place somewhere, a ranch maybe, and i'd have jet skis... and a rifle range... but it is my fate to never feel the cool lake spray through my course and sandy beard, so Look Out Holy Momma- Here Come The USAMA!
Phep: Well, folks, you've seen it there for yourselves: the face of Evil Itself- religious zealots willing to die for their False God. the American Consumers, who's cause is JusT, are now asking themselves- what am I willing to die for? what does it mean to be a Citizen? Tune into the National Cathedral at 7 oclock to hear Republicans and Democrats join together in a chorus of "God Bless America" on the steps of the Capitol in a bi-partisian song to show that the two parties have come together to form ONE United Front for War Against Terrorism!
later... a story of True Patriotism, where the younger brother, Todd(not real name), enlisted to join his brother in their call to Duty. Older Brother Charley has two kids and his wife is scared to death. -so, you don't want them to go?, asks the reporter... -Absolutely Not! It's ridiculous...i can't believe this is all happening, it's just surreal, she says, burping baby #3. But Older Brother Charley gives his brother a loving Noogie and says, he's Proud that his little brother's coming with him. -we've got to make the world safe, and get rid of these terrorist people for our children. And we've got to get them where they Grow.
little brother Todd: well, it's not just following my brother as much as this is A Cause I can believe in and get behind, I mean, it's something Real... and I just feel like i've got to be a part of something this Big and Important.
News8Brad: we can only Hope this kind of Patriotism is contagious, right Tonya?
News8Tonya: I think maybe you're contagious, Brad [grinning fiendishly].
News8Brad: Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha [also grinning fiendishly].
News8Tonya: Ha HA HA HA, ahh, we like to make it fun on the Morning show, and in the spirit of fun, we have Dick Cheney on satellite link from an undisclosed location in Maui to read a little, um, poetry?
Dick: Yo Yo Yo i'm Granmaster-D kickin it Old school on the beach stormin tip here to spit some bullshit rhymes all the time sublime in the Air-Force Deuce! [on the monitor from a luau in Maui sporting purple velvet pimp hat with a big red feather, some heavy gold chains and a royal Dalmatian coat (a little warm for the beach, some thought) chugging boat drinks, a camera follows him leading a congo line around a fire pit pig bbq and rapping into a wireless mic]
YO YO YO YO! I'm DICK the ViP- the VEE!I!PEE!
jus chillin out the Vice Presidency
as far from you as I can be
cuz you might get bombed, suckas!

when I was back running
my oil company
All the fine ladies
Wantin to bump witme
even though I was fat and bald
you gotta respect the Bejamins... [fanning out handfulls of hundreds]

now I gotta keep shit
my
on the D-L
lookin at my books go
wouldn't well

cuz I'm just hiding out- as far as you know
but but really i'm back here running the show from my
Bunker- Under
ground
with walls and towers
girdled round
Blow up a nuke-

it won't make no sound

while i'm watching me
Teevees

so Unfurl the Flags!
release the sequined hags!
the tagged and bagged in Polo rags
without no change to spare-
We'll keep the oil for the Rightful Heirs.
and Everyone Against US better Beware-
Here Comes Brand Name Justice!

i called my mother, who said she didn't want to talk about it, that there was just too much else to worry about, that I couldn't know, that there's just too much going on here and why couldn't I just get behind my country. "I just hate what that school's done to you. you never used to say the awful things you say now. you never used to be such a liberal. you call that education? Hating your country? I can't believe you've said the terrible things you've said in your emails. don't email me anymore, please, because I just can't take it. all your generation just never has had the kind of Pride in Your Country that you're Supposed to Have, that you should feel a connection to your people and what you commonly believe-
-what? that we support the killing of more innocent people?
-No matter what you say, you won't change my mind. The American people are decent people, and I don't think President Bush has any choice but to go after these, these Scumbags who think they can get away will killing 6,000 decent citizens- did you know that we gave them, gave the Afghanis- a whole bunch of money to build a stadium... an athletic stadium... and they use it to massacre their own people? they just slaughter them all the time, and starve them- don't give them anything to eat- women, children, and you know, you won't agree with me i'm sure, but there's no other way to react to these people that to show them Resolve. there world has to be made a safe place for decent people.
-do you think God is on our side?
-I should hope so.
-and it's God's will that we should invade Afghanistan?
-I don't want to talk to you about this. you just don't understand. I drink pepto bismol every day. no one is buying houses and the market isn't going to turn around. the economy is grinding to a halt and your father and I work on commission, so there's just no... just no... no guarantees about how life's going to turn out... you'll understand this when you get a little older. you'll have to, you'll see... I was alive during the Vietnam War and.. I was against it, then... because those are the kindof beliefs that you're supposed to have when you're that age, but you'll see, when you get to my age you understand...sometimes you just have to show Resolve.
-What do you mean by 'Resolve'?
-Oh don't Start that Shit. They've got to do something... what do you expect them to do? Nothing?
-Not Them. Us. What are We Going to do?
-We Can't Do Nothing. Terrorism Must be stopped! We can't let those people think they can just go around killing American Citizens!
-and by what means should we get vengeance?
-I told you I don't want to talk about this and I meant it. you'll never change my mind. maybe when you're a bit older, come talk to me then. I've seen America in Good Times and Bad, and everything is going to be okay....you just have to have faith in your Country and your Leaders. You're So Cynical at such a young age, I don't envy you at all...someone who can only be Negative about life- Negative about the country You Were Born In. You Were Lucky to Be Born in America, and It's About Damn Time You Showed Some Respect For the Freedoms You've Been Given. I raised you to be a different person than you turned out to be. I don't know how it happened, but something got a hold of you and you've just not the person you were five years ago. I don't know who you are anymore, because the boy that I raised to believe he was born in good country would never have said the things you said. we can't talk about this ever again. we will never agree and I can't take it anymore...i'm sorry you Hate So Much, but I did all I could with you...
-I don't hate anyone, that's-
-Anyone Except Your Country! No more talking about this. I have to go. i'm sorry you're so cynical. i'm sorry you feel so wronged. i'm sorry you're so disillusioned, but that's the life you choose and you have to live with it...

there's the street, merely 20 feet away and trembling beside the cold buildings and rotten carcass of a parking garages, lights on every floor... cars, trucks, fantasies by the window... meat products, aromas of beefkabob, beerswilling college boys cheering in the night... everything burning gas... I'm burning gas that comes from the ground and the whole process is totally inconceivable to me- but it fills my world with wonders- Vehicles Whsizing, lovelyshwishhh, and not to mention the pilot and the radiator and all the warmersteams of upwafting civilization in winter- where would we be? I, Philly, without these buildings and their armaments against the cold and freezing winds only infinite millimeters from your insulation,... good on ya, he said, dying of a heart attack there on his lawnmower- ood on ya!, keeled over dead... that's the day becky learned to hit from the red tees...
get minuscule, smallful, Titusrung, neorealinotwithstandingheatingcosts alone- WE must get-- GAS, and ever and ever more of it until it's all GONE. Jack Welch, former Ceo of GE, tells a room full of future CEOs to invest in energy. He knows that our ever expanding corporate strangle on the world NEEDS ENERGY. He also knows that getting the "Right People" Into the "Right Positions" is a key to controlling the country. he knows that moving products around the globe is wasting oil at rate that's going to dry up the world's supply within 100 years- The Supply Will Inevitably Dry up and be gone forever anyway- an Unavoidable Truth that Americans don't deal with well...
the great fish encapsulation sealsland a great many and washes forth a sea of frothy ruined in silver and gold. sigh in the middle of the night... don't take it for granted... bawk at the appearance of phantom cars that appear and disperse in a poofpuff of whiff by the window forgotten before they even happen. if you can't imagine an America without cars it's only because you can't look far enough. you must at least be able to see an American highways and city streets rid of the oil torching Hubris PODS rotting in ditches empty and burned out amongst the rubble and flowers- we laugh and dance the laugh and dance of the ones who see that this "civilization" is Unsustainable, and wish it good luck, knowing not what horrible final force it will take it to rein in the Masters's needs for death and dismemberment and our silent participation? they've got us too sad and tired to care anymore... don't fall for the scam industry of despair... depression is constructed and functional. the forces of evil are actively lobbing pill missiles from cruise ships. the final act of cowardliness and domination of the world begins when we put missiles in space... and guess what??

-and He doeth great wonders so that he make fire come down from the heaven on earth in the sight of men, And decieveth them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an Image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the Image of the beast, that the beast should both Speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the Image of the beast should be killed. (Revelations 13:13)

The problem is not so much that the Pentagon is building a weapon system to surround the globe, but rather that many people feel this is a good idea- Boys down at the War Room are calling it "Full Spectrum Dominance". Chapter 2 of the "The Vision for 2020", (document available in full at http://www.space154k.stai.com/AFSPCnew/library...(i looked it up at work)) says, "The Vision looks 25 years into the future and may be summed up in one sentence: "A globally integrated aerospace force providing continuous deterrence and prompt engagement for America and its allies ... through control and exploitation of space and information."
in a plan where they gloat about "the ability to hold terrestrial targets at risk" and the inherent advantage of filling space with Our Satellites first, because they can fly weapons over any country without any sovereignty or border issues and whatnot... they uh, "expect this advantage to persist..."- because once you're there you can dictate who else gets to launch satellites- who else gets to broadcast news and information- this is the Imperial Eagle- the ultimate predator of the earth- able to engage targets in "near real time" and hinting at "high-energy weaponry"- cheer all you want for this, but as CCR sang-
"when the band plays 'Hail to the Chief',
they point the cannon at- you!"

always from behind the window... behind the bars, always outlooking at outlooking cars. driving in the dreams of others, walking about in the gardens of other's minds, looking for eggplant. nothing quite does it like mastercard, am iRIGHT folks?
the drug addled must learn that the ordinary is extraordinary on it's own terms, and the non-drug addled need to learn that clouds are breathing. just as it is as it allsways wuz...does he need sleep or recuperation? something tells this bloke to go for broke and not make a joke of his unspoken hope- all the cars, over and over, over and over, all the time cars, all night and every day cars, and don't say that's the way it's always been cuz thats bullshit. this is the PRESENT, and as The Present Decides to give us certain pleasures of eternity, wiffs, puffs, bodies smeard with it and the sad violins laughing, singing, at least one happy soul alone in the vibrating city night of sound and light- brain gun fired brain after brain over the castle wall to splatter googlysmoosh in the moat... goodnight cat, goodnight kittens, goodnight mittens and bowl of mush, old lady Rabbit whispering hush- goodnight moon and the red balloon, good night my friends, goodnight...

night after night in my dreams I'm back at my desk watching amateur news shots I downloaded off the internet. One Angle- filming firemen standing around a street grate. when the shot begins, they're all just standing around doing absolutely nothing watching one fireman fiddle with the street grate with some kinda metal stick, when they all hear this big engine thing flying over- is that a plane? they all look up and around, kindof confused, then the camera turns directly to the WTC and boom, guy screams "holy shit!", flames, falling rubble, people running...
another angle: someone filming the WTC for no apparent reason what-so-ever when an airplane appears from the left side of the screen and then disappears behind the tower. this guy at the bottom of the screen, who's eating a sandwich on butcher paper opened up on the roof of his car, when he hears this big boom and is almost slightly startled. then he turns around and looks and nearly shits himself, drops his sandwich even.
these tapes kept running over and over, and each time they'd be a little different. how many firemen in that last shot? which one was talking to a walkie talkie? which one had the stick? who looked up first? what kind of sandwich was it? this time the airplane appears from the right and explodes into the tower. this time the guy screams, "Muuuuther Fuuuucker!",
the flames are the same, and the rubble still falls and the people are still running, but each time the tapes are played it's getting closer and i'm not at my desk. i've been sucked into my monitor while imminent destruction is on "Pause" and we're flying over it in a satellite from space, zooming in from miles above to the tiny cogs of the circutboard cityscape. you're the satellite wandering in orbit only able to watch and see nothing human but points of movements and termination on a grid. you're a 4 Star General who only ever even cracks a grin while watching combat in real time from outer space. you speak of kill ratios and daisy cutters and noiseless entry and collateral damage death of real sons and daughters and mothers and fathers without flinching- without even the slightest hint of emotion to your buddies who all nod and agree because they too are psychotic or too weak to speak against your psychosis.
and lately in the land of democracy,
you've acquired the psycho's grin.
tailoring the bloodlust neckties of a conqueror,
weenee vidi WIN!
You stand ready to brand your "Good" on the People all over the World-
but 'United We Stand'
from the lips of an oil man
comes with a plan
to burn the planet's gas as fast as we can
misunderstanding or
overlooking the absolute finiteness of fossil fuels
or not caring,
which is easiest and most cowardly of
all
and has
nothing to do with
what comes after you
and the effects of the life you leave behind,
but the effects of the life you live presently in-between words, or
ontopofwords, orgroundrounddowntomean words, werd terds, for Terds iz
Werds dear friends ...pukeup everything on the hotel room floor, leave
the mess for the Maid.
another sweat drunk heathen night gone home without no laid,
the girl only wants to know, "how much do you get paid?", monstrously
afraid you'll love
her.
how long can she, America, hold back unsingable suffering- noiseless
thrashing about on a bed of feathers and fondue forks,
Auld Land Syne and champagne corks,
DiPhallactic DemonFuck for the false Profit "Progress" and even still at
this late date- GOD and DUTY to the Onward ImperiMall Urges tward
moremoreMoreMOreMOReMOREMOREMORE?
invitations to whore as Thor,
learn to kill in the Gay ol Core,
fight a War for the Country's Store
in a dream of meat without end.

...Axel's telling me a story about a young shaman that he read about in some book he doesn't remember, but "relates to the things that help us deal with it...
"this apprentice shaman gets all jammed up on Petyote and has this vision that he's falling into a deep dark chasm- a pit without end into total darkness- and he's Afraid- I mean, he's falling into Nothingness Forever- and you can't be afraid of Nothing- but still, he's Afraid- follow me now, so his fears take Shape- Fills the Nothing- maybe sink into features of the surroundings- Become Things. Now he's on a beach- he thinks he's been closing his eyes all this time and all this is in his head, but he opens his eyes and he really IS on this beach at like Midnight- everything Pitch Black- even the sand- and that's how he could tell he was on a beach- he could feel the sand and hear the water and see them barely- He's still too afraid to totally open his eyes- I mean, this kid had no idea what he was getting into, right? This Old Indian dude chanting some stuff, and giving him all these drugs, telling him to close his eye and fall in, well... now what? He's opened his eyes and he's on this beach and feels- Feels it in the Unexplainable way of dreams that this is the place of Ultimate Fear- can even see it in the shadows seeping upwards from the sand like oily water through the air- I mean- He's gone to the Place of All Fears in the Soul- where Raw Fear is Produced- and that's too far for an apprentice of his level- Too Difficult to remain intact and not Panic and Lose his Shit forever you know- you gotta be careful you go mucking about with the soul- anyway, he's overcome with Terror and starts screaming and there's no echo- No sound- no breath- No Air- it's like he's suffocating but not breathing at all on the edge of dying- (He finds out the next day from the Old Shaman that during this period of the trip he was writhing around on the floor choking himself with his own hands)- so Then from the ocean comes this ship- this big black Spanish Galleon coming in slow and low like midnight itself- like a magnet for all the fears- pulling the air into it's hull and spewing it out poisonlike and just evil- it was Pure Fear - and The Terror got to him- it was too much to bear and the apprentice is wailing nothing outloud to nothing and watching this movie reel of horrors going through his brain until the various visions of failures and mutilations of the spirit are clogged into one pill that he's swallowing constantly and choking up there on Fear Beach- and with all his fears amplified and knotted he feels lonely- wretched unloved loneliness aching in all his bones- the fear that he is trapped, alone behind those same two eyes forever, disconnected from everything...he's so terrified that the Terror itself reaches the breaking point inside him and he opens his eyes to the long dark scowl of a pterodactyl, spreading it's wings and sqWaawaking like crazy- as if things weren't bad enough, right?- he sees that things are coming off the boat- all these pterodactyl Lizard things- all Filing off like soldiers and lining up on the shore- and the apprentice is terrified and screaming- who are you? what do you want?- and they answer him in thoughts- speak right into his Brain- say that they're a species of Reptile from another planet that's come to rule Earth. well this apprentice just can't deal and freaks out and starts running- he go in way too far too fast- and the pterodactyls are flying after him, pecking him in the head the whole time shrieking- We'll RULE THE EARTH!! WE'LL RULE THE UNIVERSE!!! (raising his arms and flapping around the room)
-anyway... (Axel pauses for a sip of coffee)... next day, apprentice wakes up from his vision to find that the fears never resolved themselves- that these forces he found within himself that claim extraterrestrial origin and say they want to dominate the earth hadn't really settled themselves, so he tells the Old Shaman about his vision and describes all the fears- the beach where even the air and sand was permeated with pure fear- and the boat where all the Lizard Bird thingys got out and how he was overcome with terror- and he's telling all this to the old guy, but he's not, you know, feeling any sympathy, you know- the Old dude is just sitting there smiling, and the apprentice gets pissy and yells at him- "EVIL LIZARDS within My OWN Soul Told Me They WANT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!- and the Old Shaman just laughs- laughs and laughs, laughs out "That's what they always say!"

home for the holidays in the eternal sports bar talking to people I hadn't seen since highschool and didn't remember anyway. televisions everywhere all totally silent but creeping like scattered campfires at the upper edges and pretty much everywhere you could look. i'm talking to a kinda husky-but-cute-and-could-probably-lose-that-weight-if-she-wasn't-chain-smoking blonde girl, who feels that "thu reaal tragedy of Sept eleventh was that most of those people who were killed probably weren't saved by Christ and went to Hell- don'tchoo think? Cause most of them people in New York are atheists, right? Is it the same in Philadelthia?"
"no, actually...not everyone in New York is an atheist. not everyone in Texas is a Christian-"
"and That's the Problem!"

the last night of the Republican National Convention and all the main elevators are jammed as the Politicos left their parties with escorts, and the service elevators weren't moving as a security measure. I was working as a Production Assistant for Fox News. it was pouring rain outside and I'd purloined a cooler full of assorted beers from Trent Lott's Skybox party right after Bush's inauguration address and was trying to get it down to the golf cart before they towed it. the Secret Service had the stairwells closed off, so I had to wait for the elevator. this guy Leon, who was taking the leftover food downstairs- baguettes, dips, little blocks of cheese, several untouched shrimp cocktails smushed by stacks of plates squirting marinara sauce to run down the white table cloth. Leon was jumpshotting shrimp into the garbage can across the room to waste time, saying, "I tell you what, man... these people Can PARTY. I mean, GOD DAMN!, when they Throw Down, They ThROW Down! I mean, I like to drink just as much as the next guy, right? but these country club folk, I don't know...girls got they furs and they jewelry, and everybody laughin and drinkin they martinis. and i'm supposed to throw out all this food, and I can't find one goddamn bottle with a drop oliquor left in this whole bildn. they took it ALL, man... they took it all...

And Now, to the ominous everpresent facSICSCImo, that couped from inside... who knew it could happen here? scenes of Afghanistan on the news show a nation on Fire. people being beaten with sticks and buildings being burned in the background. Bush in an American Flag Turban reading his speech on tv.
i'm over at my friend Axel's house. Axel manages a real estate office for Slum Lords. they give loans to anyone to buy houses, he tells me, "no matter what their credit history, if they have a decent sum to put up front, we'll take it, put you in a deathtrap and soak you for whatever wages you can pull together- and you'll never have enough to make significant payments, like, to Buy, like they said in the Ad...but at $42,000 at 13%, you stand quite clearly Under the Thumb. when you can't pay, we evict you and sell the debt to a credit agency for .80 on the $1.00. and that's like releasing the hounds. imagine hundreds of robots programmed to bother you night and day until they get their money. these companies are Re-Lent-Less. they want their money. they don't see it as your money- they've already purchased the debt- it's Their money and they're going to get their money, or they'll ruin you. it's the only thing they do. they don't produce anything. all their business is living off people's debt. our company takes the loss, but keeps the house, and just sets up the next cash batteries with the same loan at 13% and it all happens again. these are numbers that never really translate into real cash, ya know- but only to be a sum that people always have to keep earning towards like, you know, the carrot and the donkey."
Turbaned Bush reading from the TelePrompTer: This is Civilization's Fight. This is the Fight of All who believe in Progress and Pluralism, Tolerance and Freedom!
Axel: it's wage slavery. no one ever talks about the fact that the abolitionists who opposed slavery in the South also opposed wage slavery of corporations in the North. it's clear who's behind the money in this country- I mean- how does an honest to God aristocracy arise in the midst of America and no one ever notices? I mean a true aristocracy with Patrilineal succession of power- how else do we have political families like the Kennedys and the Bush's and Colin Powel's son running the FCC?
Georgie: We will ask, and we will Need the help of Police Forces, Intelligence Services, and Banking Systems around the World.
Axel: lemme ask you this question- the Fed funds banks right? gives banks money, regulates the flow... well who gives money to the Fed? The Fed has to go to Private Investors to get the money they give to banks. Private Investors. and you can't find out who those investors are.
Georgius the II: I ask for your continued participation and confidence in the American economy. Terrorists attacked a symbol of American Prosperity. They did not touch it's source.
Axel: I was reading this book about the illuminati and you know... the guy had some interesting points. he said that the illumniati want to use up all the world's oil to speed up the process of global warming because they're all actually reptiles. if you look at Bush closely, his tongue seems to have a prosthetic slice to hide the fork. it's only a slight discoloration- look, there, you can kinda see it...the point was that they are the illuminati and they've got the money and the want the New World Order.
Hyno-Eyes BUSH, w/prosthetically corked fork: Americans should not expect one battle, but A LllllEeeeeNGTHYyy CAMPAIGN, unlike any other we have sssseen.
Axel: You've seen that stuff on the back of the dollar bill, the one eyed pyramid and all that stuff in Latin- all the Forefathers of this Country were Masons. Check out the coins-
Shrub: ...dramatic strikes, visible on television, and covert operations-
Axel: line up a quarter, nickel, dime and penny all with the heads rolled around, you know, the same way.
Busch, Head for the Mountains of: Every nation, in every region, no has a decision to make...
Axel: what do you notice right off- all the silver coins have heads facing left and the penny is facing right, right? why is that?
Butch: starve Terrorists of Funding, turn them on against each other, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest.
Axel: because Washington, Jefferson and FDR were all Masons... guess who's not a Mason- Lincoln, who also freed the slaves. they're really on the side of all the silver coins against the One Brown one that symbolically and literally means the least.
CEO, USA Corp.: Every Nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us or you are with the Terrorists. From this day forward-
Axel: no one ever wonders about Who Designed the money... we just take it for granted- but this is stuff that someone put alot of thought into how they could make is just like they wanted. these decisions aren't arbitrary. they happen because someone has desired effects in mind-
THE W: dozens of Federal Departments and Agencies, as well as State and local governments, have a Responsibility affecting Homeland Security. These efforts must be coordinated at the highest level- SO tonight I announce the creation of a Cabinet-level position reporting directly to me- the office of Homeland Security.
Axel: and the Republicans hold up Lincoln as Their Guy without any sense of irony-
Talking Sandwich[with olive eyes and stabbed by toothpicks]: as a Threat to our Way of Wife is to Stop it, Eliminate it, and Destroy it where it Grows!
Axel: He's not even a good puppet- I mean, don't you they wish they could've gotten somebody to read the cards right, but that's an aristocracy for ya- the leisure class that's existed since civilization's began.
The Fear of being Eaten by a Sandwich flapping lips of Bologna: By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions -- by abandoning every value except the Will to Power -- they follow in the path of Fascism and Nazism and Totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way to where it ends: in history's unmarked grave of discarded lies!
Axel: did you ever hear about what happened in South Africa. did you ever think about what's happened in South Africa for the last 100 years? do you know why it was colonized to begin with? to get the diamonds. the Diamond Interests Went in, Debeers, you know, the commercial that's all silhouettes to Debeers, the composer? well they have the largest share in the Mines there and the government set up Martial Law and put everyone to work on Mining the Diamonds. Mandela tried to fight it and they put him in jail, kept Martial Law and Apartheid going for the last 30 years, and then what happened- they said- ok, it's a happy country again, Mandela's out of jail and he's elected Democratically- and all the diamonds, gone. they took all the diamonds and said, ok, you can have your country back now. chalk one up for the age of Liberty, triumph of Democracy and all that... thanks for the rocks, and enjoy Coke, we're going back to Belgium, or wherever -but see, who were these people that did that?- you can't know who's the money behind these operations, but this is a clearly designed and implemented plan to hijack a country, rape and pillage for as long as they possibly could, which, in this case, was 30 something years, so, with actual slave labor, they were able to be careful and take their time getting everything. and where was the United State's Humanitarian Intervention then? they did it all with our support. we backed them the whole way. the same way we've supported Israel's political assassinations- we give them the helicopters with missiles to shoot into cars or apartment buildings, or whateverthefuckallthey decide to do with it- you've seen the pictures: Israeli tanks driving down the street at a bunch of little kids throwing rocks. these people have ROCKS for christsake. and the Israelis are armed to the fucking teeth with all this stuff they had to scratch the American Logo off there, ya know? eye for an eye, those people don't fuck around. over there, you turn 18 and Bam: here's you gun, gotta keep the Holy Land going.... when I was a little kid, I remember this, I asked my mom why the people over there were fighting, and she told me (doing the voice)'that's just the way they are, honey. it's just for religious reasons that go back thousands of years and we'll never know why'... and so, I always thought those places had been there for thousands of years, fighting the whole time. now come to find out that the Israel is a country the British put there in 1948 to create the Jewish Nation State after WWII. what? before that it was just called Palestine, all of it...and, ofcourse, predominantly Muslim, but everyone was getting along at least. do you know what this is? This is the Bush's family Plan to secure the Oil Reserves in the Middle East as a 'favor for future generations'. this is how Oil men think. They can't fucking stand the fact that those Godless Sonsubitches are sitting over there on all that oil. Old George was an Oil Man AND, AND Director of The C I A for nearly the whole cold War...this is the same Agency that arranged for the bombing of a Mosque in Nicaragua- bombed it at a time when ther'd be the most people and 80 people got killed. He Ordered This to Be Done. you know, in hindsight, who do you think was in charge of things when it was Regan-Bush? how the hell does a guy like Bush ever get elected President anyway. he's not attractive, or charming, or especially witty or interesting... he looks like an old dork. and they played up that whole Wimp thing. don't think the CIA doesn't think of things like this. if everybody thinks he's a Wimp, then you'll never believe he's the only Western leader ever to be convicted of a war crime. it's true, you can look it up. we invaded Nicaragua and killed a bunch of people and they didn't like that very much and took it up with this thing called the World Court, had you ever heard of the World Court? I hadn't, but, we rejected their decision that it wasn't right to Invade this country and kill all these people...anyway, Bush wants the OIL. he's had plenty of time and plenty of resources at his disposal to set everything up so that this country would go to War in the Middle East to secure the Oil patches. The US doesn't have that much oil left and they know it. Texas is pumped, lets face it, and they'll continue to rape the coastline and the Gulf and all that offshore crude, but that's why Little Georgie wants the Alaskan Wilderness opened up to Oil Companies- we're running out and they want to grab whats left while they still can. ...this has been brewing for a long time, I mean, Rome wasn't-[EVENT]... from the street outside, the scrreech of tires, Thud and crushed glass. Axel hyperventilates and has to find a paper bag, but is still compelled to actually leave his apartment and go see what happened. we go downstairs and outside on the pretext of going to the 7-11 across the street. the crystal quiet night is bathed in the nauseous swirl of siren light as a towtruck pulls a pickup out of a Volkswagen. someone's thrown a rock through the window of 7-11. the people on the sidewalk are all looking at down the street. I can't see what they're looking at and I can't hear a sound.

Back at work. early meeting and i've had too much coffee and am already sweating. try to make jokes, jot down notes, act like i'm busy... and the meeting hasn't even started...
in an room overlooking Philadelphia skyline of glass and silver, we convene begrudgingly to plot...
HeadofMarketingStrategyRudy: ok, clearly, consumers are going are going to be shaken up by this Tragedy- and I think they'll be asking themselves... asking themselves... Philip, what are they asking themselves?
CopyistPhil: they'll definitely be asking themselves questions... I agree..
HoMSRudy: but what Kind of questions? America has just been wounded! Livelihoods are at Stake here! what do consumers want??
[the table of people sit still and eyeing the floor mostly]
HoMSRudy: I know you all feel remorse for things, and that's good. I think that's perfect- let's talk about it- let's Use those feelings- what's going on with the Disney Project?
DisneyProjectCaptainGwen: well, Rudy, everyone.. of course, much has been made about the Viagra trends among the passing middle aged baby-boomer demographic, and we're projecting that that trend will hold and more empty-nesters are primed to revitalize sexual roots at Disney World.
HoMSRudy: Ok, fine, but what do they want- these baby-boomers- what is their inner most desire-
DPCGwenwhowilljust droneonifyoulether: well the babyboomers grew up in the safety and Jetsonesque 50's in very formative early childhood, but then the experienced the horror of the loss in Vietnam and the blossoming of the Counter-Culture Movement. it was a time of much confusion. their own lives were at stake and they questioned their universities and military institutions. Many Protested the Vietnam War or felt sympathy for the protesters but now feel a guilt about adopting this peacenik stance and blame it for loosing us Vietnam. They mostly made money in the eighties, lost it in the late eighties, and gained it back in the nineties under the inflated sums of the tech-boom, and have raised children who, incidentally, have responded positively to our 'suburban rebel-teen' models-
HoMSRudy: that's all well and good Gwen, but what can we sell to them?
DPCGwen: they want fantasy getaways, mostly, we think... this ties in with Viagra phenomenon that indicates empty-nesters are responding to their sexual urges again and wanting to feel right and comfortable about what they're doing.
HoMSRudy: anyone talking to the Sportscar People? the lamborghinis and whatnot- if there's dispensable income and a sexual need to spend then that must mean race cars, am I right? did you have more to say?
DPCGwen: only that the War on Terrorism is an opportunity to market to the babyboomers heavily with WWII type images and virtues, because it responds to their stimuli as children which they want to revisit now as they are beginning to feel the first real signs of aging and fears of death are beginning to surface [out of breath].
HoMSRudy: ok, ok, now we're getting somewhere- so the Disney Project is going for-
DPCGwen: the change-of-life-baby seekers- or at least those with disposable income looking for fantastic getaways...
HoMSRudy: and our angle is that it's our Patriotic Duty to Travel to Disney World- ohMYGOD- Philip, are you writing this down? we'll make Disney World the nation's Touchstone- everyone will come to it- from miles around- all the babyboomers who never grew up will be children again- Rightfully- Yes, Yes, this is going to Sell!! We'll Tell them to be children again- they were the 'First Disney Generation' now come back! ha! they'll eat it up!- Okay, enough Disney, what else do we have? what about Ford- have we a jingle yet? are there words ringing about in some corridor ready to spring forth wealth everlasting to me coffers? what say we Eustice? what melodious phrases will drive us into tomorrow?
us: well... [frozen in all the gleams of the boardroom's eyes who all know we haven't any jingles for Ford and just wait to hear the gruesome news- holding smiles so ridiculous that they inoculated themselves to ridicule, like wax potatoes with lips]...I was thinking of something like...um, (kindof pathetically singing) Balls to the Wall, um... Not Gonna Crawl, No, ... um, You're, uh, Sitting Tall Now, uh Answer the Call Now- Ford! (ending with confidence, wanting to bury my head in my hands and weep)
[hesitation to see how Rudy would react--]
HoMSRudy[breathing in real deep like and nodding]: ok, ok, I like it, I like it- Balls to Wall, Answer the Call- Ford- Yeah! I LikE! I LIKE! Consumers Will Believe it's Their Duty to Drive Trucks. It's What Being an American is all about- the right to have larger vehicle than your opponent on the road- WOW- did I just say opponent? Philip, check the tape- I'm having a vision...no, wait, it's just gas... no, wait- It is A ViSion- I can see it- Dunebuggies! Armament- Mad Max fantasies- we'll all be wandering through the desert battling it out for the last bit of Oil. it's going to be a big help in the battle if you have a big fuckin terror-mobile, ya know? are you with me? Philip, are you writing this down? DuneBuggies are the FUTURE! Balls to the Wall- You're Sitting Tall in a..DuneBuggy!- sing it with me people! DuneBuggies! Answer the Call- Dunebuggies! Anyway, Good. let's move then to the Untied We Stand campaign. We gotta move fast on this People-
Philip: pardon me sir, but the order is for United We Stand, sir...
HoMSRudy: Philip! You know how much I hate Sir Sandwiches! [stabs him in the hand with a pencil- Philip shrieks in pain, scuttles to clean up his mess]... ok, whoops it is 'UnIted' We Stand- sorry bout that, do you need some tissues? United makes alot more sense, don't you think? Untied might say it a little more accurately, but We'd Need to Stand United, as a Nation, right? I mean, so what's going to unite us?
DPCGwen: Viagra!
HoMSRudy: No, no, no... I mean What will Unite a People? People are only United out of Fear of an Outside threat- which we have, but if the terrorists don't do something else again soon, we'll wear ourselves assholes-out trying to fan the flames of this thing- I mean- I'm thinking something Prolonged, something that would divide America.. something that would Divide America into For and Against- We need to find out who will stick it out to the End- in History's Unmarked Bologna Sandwich- Who's going to...who's going to... Help Eat that Sandwich- who's going to... who's going to...
us: obey?
[evidently he'd been speaking to himself b/c the response gives him Pause]
HoMSRudy: ... obey... who's going to Obey? who's going to Rebel? What do they Obey? against what do they rebel? Who's in- Who's On board- Who's down for the count, who's come to the Mount- Who's With uS- are any of these sounding off any of you? - Who's Game? Who's Fame? Who's Name is Jane? I don't know- maybe- Are you Reichdeutch? Reichdeutch! ha! Get that one to the New York Office- the hip scene suffers for obscurities..... is any of this churning any ideas around? are you With me here? Eus, you're squirming there not wanting to say something- what is it? come on, more with obey... talk about Obey.
us: um... obey, to obey... to obey and not say, I guess... ...um, what... would come out naturally if just you let it... things you might say, but choose to obey... die inside maybe, and forget what you might have said...
[looking at the floor and jus kindof trailing off...]
HoMSRudy: ok, great... thanks for that, really. Would anyone else care to make some inane ramblings? [completing his joke and then to Eus] Are you on drugs?
us: no sir.
HoMSRudy: Philip, get Eustice some drugs- what flavor do you savor?
us: i'm making a point about information-
HoMSRudy: there's too much information, yeah, we've heard-
us: Not that there's too Much information but that the bulk of it is largely unproveable for...well, pretty much everybody- people just accept what tv tells them.
HoMSRudy: Thank God for that! am I right?
[some other nervous laughs, i'm feeling ill and talkative]
us: I mean, there's a trust there and people have ..um, faith that you're, well.. that... the information is Reality- or at least reflects reality. and I think that, I think that advertising United We Stand when we know that, well, that there are quite a few Americans who don't Stand UnIted, at least in the effort towards the War- I mean- don't we have a responsibility to at least advertise the truth?
[the was a long silence. a plastic bag, caught in
in-between-building zepherous-upgusts, spirals by the window...]
HoMSRudy: you're joking right?
us: No! [slamming fist to the table] I mean, the planet is running out of Oil and i'm doing jingles for trucks-
HoMSRudy: damnit Eus- I said DuneBuggies Were the Future!
us: it's all seduction into madness that I swallow Myself and my Soul with Every-
HoMSRudy: Were you ever called a drama queen? You're just being Alarmist-
us: Yes- Alarmist! Sound the Alarms! This is Political Propaganda for WAR- for More Terrorism!
HoMSRudy: for Chissakes, Eus, it's just a fuckin slogan-
us: A Phrase We'll Plaster everywhere on billboards and in bathroom stalls for Political Machines with their own Agenda- Anti-Democratic! Anti-HUman!
HoMSRudy [relaxing in his chair and grinning sarcastically]: Are you cracking up? Wow! I've always wanted to see someone crack! Please continue...
us: fuck you!
HoMSRudy: oh, you want to get fired is it?
us: fired? I quit [exits left]
HoMSRudy: Quit? you can't quit! - [yelling out the door now, down the hall] you have to at least try to get fired, right? I mean, if we fire you then you get a Benefits Package and Severance!! You're missing the chance to do something really Zany! come back here and kick me in the Balls! Come Kick Me in the Balls you WUSS! Bite my Pinky oFF- IDARE YOU!! TRIPPILEDOGDAREYOU!!

-remembering always Philip K. Dick's wisdom that finds heroism in tiny refusals, "you can always say no, refuse to participate..." wanting always to make tiny bigger.. I don't know, I don't know... I leave myself to the first northers of Autumn still tilting the shadows and shedding the trees in slow motion world death, each dying embers whispers the ghosts of Christmas Futures
The term Terrorists is expanded to include Terrorist Sympathizers, "Blame-America-Firsters", ACLU Lawyers, PETA activists, you and me. television brings us friends in the Agency, behind the scenes of a benevolent West Wing, tales of an honest Citizen Bush and the Golden Arc of the Covenant in the most effective propaganda mill history has ever known. News Entertainment, Entertainment News, Real Life Dramas, Reality Gameshows is all the rage("That President Bartlett is My Kinda Guy, huh uhc")... Car and Truck ads w/PRIDE.... Conzoliza Rice's One Hour Makeover...and people are beginning to ask themselves "Who Is the Weakest Link?".
The Weather is fastened to the skies and we have the overnight winter of Infinite Justice. Specialized Forces Infiltrate and Explode, the Taliban is already old news, The Age Of Global Liberty- must Smoke them out of Their Holes and bring the Terrorists to- say MacDonalds? Because right now on our New Dollar Menu we have- A Lengthy Campaign with Lots of Disturbing Pictures You're Going to Have to Find the Stomach for Or- Just Say "Supersize It" for- 40 billion dollar "relief" appropriation, passed by Congress in a special- sauce, lettuce-Jesus Was Rich! He Wore the Finest Clothes! Stayed in the Nicest Hotels! And He Wants You To- have a Coke and a- (blip!) power off, the magic show of light and sound disappear and the room falls silent...

it wouldn't be the city without sirens
always drifting in and out of the everpresent roadnoise background all
day and night
it wouldn't be the city without asphalt forever in all directions
creeping the Reganesque octopus arms of starsprinkled civilization's
starving need of scrap metal and fiber optic tongues and near death white
light meat want for more more and more-> drive to the ends of the earth-
you can- try the Pan American Highway to Neuvo Progresso Mexico, where
the poorest of the poorest wait under the border bridge, crying like
gulls on the shore where they can cry like gulls for the loose change you
don't give because you've come bargain hunting.
over the bridge for 5 dollar filet mignon, Cuervo Gold, and furniture for
a song, ignoring horrifying wails of malnourished accordions,
refusing Chicklets gum from a boy bearing a decorative crucifix complete
with Jesus nailed up, bleeding, sipping a Pina Colada in Holy nonchalance
and you don't even flinch, never for a second wondering what this's got
to do with you
and your lovely life in the airconditioned nightmare machinery of
America.
we live in (within) an aristocracy covered several layers thin,
complete comfort, dim, on couches through the nation watching
the world through the one guided eye of the power silos
and raising children who video tape themselves in their backyards
smashing each other over the head with metal chairs.
Welcome to America

I never thought i'd get used to it,
but it's years later than years before
and I don't hear anything anymore.... citywise that is,
the cars whoosh and shhhhooo hallucinated shadows carving the edges of
the room in a whispered rhythm
likealulledloopedshushingtapeofoceannoises
interssspersssssed with long periods of ssilence...
punct!uated by intermittent bursts of motorist exuberance-
driveshaft emotion realized in a mechanical Squawk amongst the flockers
the honkers, the geese are going bonkers in desperate deadlocked rush
hour traffic for hours without moving because of an accident only heard
about on the radio.
I dreamt a scene for the Schuykill Expressway: in the sweaty, post-work
afternoon, drivers stuck in bumper-to-bumper nobody going nowhere
total automotive paralysis kind of traffic, drivers
listening to the report from Suzy in the News Chopper
thumperbeating overhead turn off all that shit
stop honking desperate impotence to the air
turns off their cars
takes out their keys
and everybody stuck on the highway gets out,
goes to their trunks
gets out their tire irons
or anything blunt and heavy and preferably metal for smashing the
everloving Shit out of All the Cars-
Let the shattering of glass be upfront and personal!
Let the tearing of metal mean something inside!
leave the rotten carcass to rust and crumble,
just walk away,
or better yet- run.

imagine amber waves of grain and you on a tractor,
mowing and spewing the happy teeth of maniacal glee-
imagine a forest ancient as the stars as far as the eye can see,
and now strap chains to it and pull it down with your truck.
imagine sitting on a shoreline sucking down the ocean breeze,
squeezing a fistful of sand and peeing into the froth and wash
no light for hundreds of miles save the spectral glowings of sailboats
teetertottering crescent moons against a heaven of total blackness.

the stars coagulate and vomit a mess of marbled scattering that solidifies into a lovely bannastered stairway and well, what else but to suddenly find yourself in a truly awful white on white Regis-like color combo suit and tie, white spandex socks and white leather loafers with gold puritan buckles...
complimentary top hat and silver cane float down from outer space with 30's style big band with the cheesy white bandstand horn section and Krupastyle Kettle beating the shit out of that bass thaaang fills the vine covered culvert with thumpbumping, bouncesoff the backs of beach heads and row houses and barrels down the alley canyons if America dripping jasmine from slide trombones with a voice so fragile and clear it's hanging lewd laundry naked.
And do i take Top Hat and Cane?
Dance the stairway with fragile veins?
Eat Uncle-Sam Ham
for the 1000 year Reign?
sing along with the wailing moan?
"Daaaown at Club Limbo,
thhaaay still plaaaaaaaay STAAAAAaaaaaaarduust...
Down at Club Limbo,
thhaaaaaaats the plaaaaaaaaaace
for our luuuuuuvvvvvv...

© crossconnect 1995-2002 |
published in association with the |
university of pennsylvania's kelly writers house |

http://bellsouthpwp.net/b/i/bill350/INTERESTING%20E-MAIL.HTML

2007-03-19T21:21:00.000-07:00

Dear Webmaster, I have attached below a true story that I received via e-mail from a brother in the military just a few days ago. Brother Patrick was the Junior Deacon at Tallapoosa Lodge #126 until the Navy transferred him to Washington DC. He is currently in Pensacola, FL attending a computer school that is required for him to fill his new billet.

I was raised a year ago and one of the reasons I joined the Mason's is due to the friendships that I had with several persons in the community that were Mason's. I miss Brother Patrick and have kept in touch to ensure that he and his family were doing alright and to see if I could do anything for him from "home". I just wanted to pass this story along in the event you wanted to share it with the other Brother's here in Georgia.

This story makes me proud to be a Mason and I can only imagine that it will touch the hearts of other Mason's throughout Georgia. Fraternally, James Phillips Tallapoosa Lodge# 126

Brother Jim,

Thanks for everything. It's great to hear that the Lodge is doing so well! I really enjoyed all the time spent with you brothers and it's wonderful that new brothers are joining. I know I wasn't a part of Tallapoosa for that long, but the Lodge is a corner-stone of that town, and I am proud to be a part of it (even if it is currently in absence).

Even though I'm not there now, the brotherhood is still with me. Let me tell you a quick story that happened just recently:

I was driving down the road a few days ago and passed a young sailor walking in the cold in full dress-blues. I pulled over and asked him where he was going and if he needed a ride. He had drawn the short straw, and was on his way to Krispy Kreme Doughnuts to pick up some doughnuts for himself and some friends. They told him to go straight out the gate and it was just down the road. He wasn't sure where it was, and neither was I, but I told him that I did know there was only one Krispy Kreme in Pensacola, so it couldn't be too hard to find. He jumped in and we started looking.

We had ourselves quite the little adventure. We drove around all the area surrounding the base and couldn't find it. I called Susan at home and had her look it up on the Internet, and we got an address. Then we got lost a few times because of my horrible sense of direction and vague knowledge of the geography of the city. We ended up downtown, we drove up Scenic Highway and saw the Gulf of Mexico and drove in slowly decreasing circles until we finally found the fabled Krispy Kreme. And whadda you know: the "Hot Doughnuts Now" sign was blinking when we pulled up!

The young sailor had just arrived in Pensacola two weeks earlier. It was the first time this 21 year old young man from Yuma, Arizona had been off the base, seen downtown Pensacola, and the second time he'd ever seen the ocean in his life. We sat outside Krispy Kreme and talked, and when I went to light up a cigarette, I offered him one. He accepted the smoke, and when he took my lighter (a Blue Masonic lighter that was a Christmas present from my father), he asked, "Are you a Mason?" I told him I was. He asked, "can you be in the military and still be a Mason?" I told him yes, that I was proof. I told him that many people in uniform are Masons, military and other uniforms, like police officers and fire fighters. He said he knew that many police and firemen were Masons because his father, a veteran of the Yuma Fire Department was a Mason. He said his father had often told him that he should join, that the Lodge needed good young men to keep the brotherhood alive. He said he thought that it was finally time for him to do something about it, and that he was going to start looking for a Lodge to join. I told him that if he was serious I could get him a petition, or he could ask his dad for one.

When we finally returned to the base to drop him off at his barracks, we had been driving for close to an hour. He thanked me for everything and asked if he could give me any money for the gas we had used. I told him: "No. Just tell your dad that you met a traveling man who took care of you. He'll know what I mean." I then gave him my number and told him to call me if he ever needed anything, because, I told him, "that's what Masons do... they take care of each other and each other's families."

(they SURE DO and they take care of other peoples' families TOO)

That's what we do. I'm proud to be a part of the Tallapoosa Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons #126 and proud to call you all my brothers. While I may be Traveling, the Lodge is still my home.

Fraternally,

Patrick Brown, MM, Tallapoosa Lodge #126, F&AM

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/archive/index.php/index.php?t-172779.html

2007-03-19T09:44:00.000-07:00

SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > Metropolis & States > Tampa / St Petersburg > Trump Tower of Tampa Thread
PDA

View Full Version : Trump Tower of Tampa Thread
Pages : [1] 2 3
John F
January 24th, 2005, 05:16 AM
Well, lets stop talking about making official threads for Tampa and start doing it... (as you wanted, Jason)

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/01/14/images/graphics/trumptampa.jpg

Trump looks at Tampa tower

At more than 50 stories, the tower would be the tallest on the west coast of Florida.

SAUNDRA AMRHEIN and JAMIE THOMPSON
Published January 8, 2005

TAMPA - Real estate mogul Donald Trump, star of the hit reality show The Apprentice, may be putting his name on Tampa's skyline.

A proposed condominium tower to be built downtown along Tampa's waterfront would be more than 50 stories high, making it the tallest on Florida's west coast, WTVT-Ch. 13 reported Friday night.

Brochures for the condo at Ashley Drive and Whiting Street have gone out and promise the ultimate in luxury and so-called "Trump style."

"I think that's indicative of what an attractive market Tampa is," Mayor Pam Iorio told WTVT on Friday.

She added: "I'm not at all surprised. He's very high profile of course, and that will make a big splash. But the fact is, we're getting more and more interest from national investors who see Tampa as a quality place to invest, and that speaks well of our city."

An official announcement is expected Monday.

Tampa developer Al Austin said he had only heard some rumors about such a plan.

"Where are they going to park?" he wondered, speculating that the building would need to include a substantial number of floors devoted to a parking garage.

But he welcomed such an enterprise.

"Any time there's something good for Tampa, I'm for it," he said.

Christine Burdick, president of Tampa Downtown Partnership, said she heard rumors months ago that Trump might involved in the project. However, the developers denied it at the time, Burdick said.

Last week, several people inquired about whether Trump was involved, Burdick said, but she had not been able to confirm it.

Trump made headlines in late November when his casino empire filed for bankruptcy protection after months of negotiations with bondholders over restructuring a crushing debt.

Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts Inc. and numerous related operations filed for protection from its creditors under Chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code.

The casino business consists mainly of three Atlantic City properties and a riverboat casino in Indiana and are only a small part of Trump's real estate empire.

The filings come even as Trump, the celebrity developer and best-selling author, has returned to the spotlight with the television show The Apprentice, which turned "You're fired" into a national catch phrase.

Trump said he will remain chairman and chief executive of Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, but his share would be reduced to 27 percent from 47 percent under a proposed restructuring plan reached with bondholders last month.

Times staff writer Scott Long contributed to this report.
MIAballinboi
January 24th, 2005, 05:34 AM
how tall in feet is this? and how does it compare with 100 north tampa and boa?

doesnt seem to be more than like 30 feet taller, not a big difference in height by that rendering
John F
January 24th, 2005, 03:58 PM
593 ft or so....
Jasonhouse
January 24th, 2005, 05:41 PM
Yeah, rumor is between 593ft and 603ft. What's wierd is that the number of floors reported in articles went up by two floors, while the hieght went down 10ft. Kinda confusing.
smiley
January 24th, 2005, 08:52 PM
Saw an ad in the paper where they had a nice rendering. It looked much more substantial - I think I will like it once built. It owuld be nice if they start in april.
The Mad Hatter!!
January 25th, 2005, 12:10 AM
when does it breakground?is it already approved,and if not is there opposition to it?
Jasonhouse
January 25th, 2005, 03:48 AM
Yeah, already approved and has nothing but the support of the city.

Smiley? today's paper, or Sunday's real estate section?
smiley
January 25th, 2005, 05:23 AM
Sunday - front page inside - it is a little rendering in a photo with teh money men, but I liked it - the rendering. The ad was cheesy.
Dale
January 25th, 2005, 05:35 AM
There's a massive (and I mean massive foldout) in the new Florida Trend.

Still, large as it is, the rendering has a rough quality to it.
jzquince69
January 25th, 2005, 04:27 PM
this building made the Daytona Beach News Journal last week.
sarasotan
January 26th, 2005, 02:22 AM
The apprentice stumps for Trump
By Jay Cridlin

Donald Trump is pulling out all the stops to hype his new condo project, Trump Tower Tampa -- as if the building's 52 stories, $6-million-per-unit price tags and inevitable gold-plated bathroom fixtures weren't enough.

Word is, Trump is sending Kelly Perdew -- the 37-year-old California software exec plucked from relative obscurity to win The Apprentice 2 -- to promote the uber-luxury complex planned for downtown Tampa.

For Perdew, who lived in and around Tampa and Sarasota for about eight years growing up, the project will offer a chance to reconnect to his roots.

"I'm just excited to see it," he said, "and get reacquainted with Tampa."

Perdew recently talked Trump, the tower and Tampa with tbt*s Jay Cridlin. Here's what he had to say:

See, I thought you chose to work in New York. But you're coming to Tampa. I guess whatever Donald wants, Donald gets. Oh yeah. I won't be living in Tampa, but I'll be actively involved in the promotion. I'll be in and out. My father lives in Englewood, just south of Sarasota, and I've got friends who live in Tampa. And I know the area really well -- I lived in Tampa for a year.

What do you remember about the area?

Ybor City. The pirate ship. I've fished in the gulf before, and I'm looking forward to it while I'm there. I tell you what I miss the most, having lived in Southern California for 12 years -- I really miss the 3 p.m., massive downpour thunderstorms. Then an hour later, it's all humid and steamy. I'm sure that over the past year, nobody in Florida was excited about bad weather. But there is something I miss about the storms.

How would Trump's hair hold up in a hurricane?

(laughs) Well, I've seen him get out of a helicopter, and it holds up just fine. It'll fly around and get messed up, and he'll run his hand through it, and it'll be right back looking just like it does.

Tell me about Trump Tower Tampa.

It looks phenomenal in the drawings. A hundred ninety units, and they've sold a significant number of those in advance. The attention to detail and the quality that are Trump trademarks are definitely in existence here. One of those no-expense-spared, gorgeous facilities. And the partners that are involved are top-notch. I'm sure it's going to be a big success.

Yeah, but you've lived here, you've seen downtown Tampa. It ain't exactly Marvin Gardens. Who's buying these condos?

People who want to live in the highest-quality, best place they can. Those are in every city. Tampa's a significant city, and it's got a good size. With all the sports teams, the real estate and everything else, there's definitely people who are interested in owning something like a place in one of the Trump buildings.

You may not be aware of this, but Tampa's got a reputation as a strip club capital.

I wasn't aware of that. I have heard it's a party town, but I didn't realize that it was a strip club capital. You learn something new every day.

I guess that's not going to be a problem, though, because we all know Donald's views on beautiful women.

Which is, he doesn't have a problem with beautiful women.

Exactly. Who's more powerful, Donald Trump or Mark Burnett?

I think they're both incredibly good at what they do. Burnett's phenomenal in the television production industry. Talk about a genius -- what's Survivor on, No. 11? Twelve? And what is a reality show, especially something like The Apprentice or Survivor? It's an hour of television with unpaid talent. It's commercials broken up by commercials. From a business model, it's pretty powerful, right?

Mr. Trump -- I mean, he's a walking brand. Just having his name involved with something increases the value. Look at how he's performed from a real estate standpoint -- he's an expert.

Final question. Carolyn Kepcher: One-piece or bikini?

Oh! Probably bikini. She comes across as pretty severe -- I don't know if "cold" is the right word -- but Carolyn is fantastic. She's a great businesswoman, and I've enjoyed the time that I have gotten to spend with her.
Jasonhouse
February 8th, 2005, 08:16 PM
So I was wondering, how much do you think that the realtor (Toni Everett) is making by being a realtor for this project?
zimna8080
February 8th, 2005, 10:31 PM
So I was wondering, how much do you think that the realtor (Toni Everett) is making by being a realtor for this project?

She got 6% out of me when I dealt with her (about $17K)
Probably something similar for this project.
texasboy
February 11th, 2005, 02:40 AM
You all have probably already seen this one, but just in case

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/01/10/images/TRUMP_TOWER_TAMPA_TP101.jpg
The Mad Hatter!!
February 11th, 2005, 03:19 AM
^^is that the color
VansTripp
February 11th, 2005, 04:03 AM
^^is that the color

Please check your name on near avator, someone puts dumbass on your name. It called "reistgered dumbass". You need changes it.
MIAballinboi
February 12th, 2005, 05:28 AM
well looks like there a giant popup ad in ocean drive magazine for this tower,
its a 4 page ad, and heres pics i took of it :cheers:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/wrestlechamp316/21105/trump1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/wrestlechamp316/21105/trump2.jpg
MIAballinboi
February 12th, 2005, 05:29 AM
oh yeah and the site is,

www.TrumpTowerTampa.com
Tampa610
February 16th, 2005, 06:10 AM
Nice view: Cities of all sizes embracing high-rise living

Tue Feb 15,10:12 AM ET Top Stories - USATODAY.com

By Larry Copeland, USA TODAY

Within an hour of learning that billionaire real estate mogul Donald Trump had signed on to build a luxury high-rise downtown, Stephen Page was ready to buy in.

Page and his wife, Linda, paid "close to $1 million" for a 34th-floor, two-bedroom condominium in Trump Tower Tampa, a 52-story, $220 million edifice to elegance that will be the tallest residential building on Florida's Gulf Coast when it opens in 2007.

This city of 321,000 is perhaps best known nationally for its Tampa Bay Buccaneers, who won the Super Bowl two years ago, and tourist attractions such as Busch Gardens. It might be the last place one would expect to find people living among the clouds, in digs outfitted with valet services, exotic wood finishes and imported marble floors with inlaid onyx.

But 3½ years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks - when the images of passenger jets slamming into New York City's landmark skyscrapers seemed to underscore the nation's vulnerability - high-rise living is enormously popular. And not just in New York, Chicago and other places long known for it. High-rise condominiums are under construction or planned in dozens of cities.

Cities across the country are witnessing a renaissance of downtown living, and, in every center-city ZIP code, some of the most sought-after addresses tower above the urban landscape. The buildings often include on-site amenities such as concierge service, restaurants, pools and spas. Some are combined with luxury hotels, and some cater to the very well-heeled - Trump Tower Tampa units range from $700,000 to more than $6 million.

"We're seeing only a few (high-rise) office buildings, but dozens and dozens of high-rise residential, mostly condos," says Ron Klemencic, chairman of the Chicago-based Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat. The group monitors skyscraper construction worldwide.

"Immediately after 9/11, there was a lot of concern for tall buildings," Klemencic says. "That, for residential buildings, has gone by the wayside. There still is concern over very tall, prominent office buildings. But people have realized that we live in this free and open society, and we have to maintain our lifestyle as before, and that means living and working in tall buildings."

The lure of luxury

Sharing that sentiment is Trump, who is known to millions as the blunt boss of TV's The Apprentice. His holdings include some of Manhattan's most prestigious residential towers, a luxury condo tower in Las Vegas and hotels and casinos in Atlantic City.

"There is no doubt that Sept. 11 had a big impact on high-rise living," Trump says. "At the time, I was planning to build the world's tallest building in Chicago, but then scaled back the plans to a 90-story tower. However, I think one of the reasons that people have decided to live in tall towers once again is the luxury services and amenities they receive, not to mention the great views they see."

For Page, the possibility of a terrorist attack wasn't really a consideration. "I feel very comfortable," he says of his Trump Tower Tampa condo. "It's not going to stick up 1,000 feet high."

"When I saw it was a project of (Tampa Bay developers) SimDag-RoBEL and Trump, I just knew it was going to be the best address in town. I had to have one," says Page, 40. "Everybody's talking about it. I think it's going to be phenomenal."

It's not surprising that 9/11 fears have eased, because other nations have endured repeated terrorist assaults without people altering their lives, says housing expert John McIlwain of the Urban Land Institute, a Washington, D.C., research group that tracks land-use trends.

Neither ULI nor Klemencic's organization keeps statistics on the boom in high-rise living. But anecdotal evidence is plentiful:

• Denver developers plan to begin construction this year on a 50-story downtown skyscraper that will house a five-star Four Seasons hotel and the most expensive condos in city history. It will be one of the city's tallest buildings.

• In downtown Milwaukee, construction is underway on two luxury condo projects, the 33-story Kilbourn Tower, with units reportedly selling for $700,000-$2.8 million, and the 34-story University Club Tower, with most units over $1.5 million. They will be Wisconsin's tallest residential buildings.

• Portland, Maine, has its own downtown condo boom, including the proposed 12-story Waterview, which will have 94 units priced from $250,000 to $475,000 when it opens in 2007.

• Just 16 years ago, Seattle voters banned skyscrapers over 45 stories. Now, Mayor Greg Nickels is calling for new high-rise residential buildings, part of an effort to double the downtown residential population over the next 20 years.

• Miami, no stranger to downtown high-rises, is seeing explosive growth in the market, with 70 projects either built, under construction or planned. If all the projects materialize, about 55,000 condominium units would be built in the city over the next 10 years.

• Las Vegas is in the middle of an unprecedented surge in high-rise condos, with 1,000 people a month plunking down deposits on units. About 20,000 units in 122 buildings have been approved, and nine buildings are under construction. "We're undergoing the Manhattan-ization of Las Vegas," real estate consultant Stephen Bottfeld says.

Even quintessentially suburban places are cashing in on the trend. In Orange County, Calif., south of Los Angeles, more than 6,500 high-rise condos are under construction or on the drawing board. And on Long Island - one of America's first suburbs - Charles Wang, founder of Computer Associates and owner of the New York Islanders hockey franchise, wants to build a 60-story hotel/condo project that would be Nassau County's tallest skyscraper.

Many projects around the nation aren't "high-rise" by Manhattan or Chicago standards, but they often dwarf local norms.

Boomers feed the demand

Real estate and land-use analysts say many factors are driving the nation's high-rise condo-mania:

• A major demographic shift. Baby boomers are inheriting wealth at the same time that they're becoming empty nesters. "We're retiring earlier, and we want to be able to lock and leave," Bottfeld says. "For people in their 50s to their 70s, their most precious commodity is time."

People don't want to spend time mowing lawns, sitting in rush-hour traffic or getting in their cars to pick up the dry-cleaning. If they live in a downtown high-rise, there's no grass to cut, they often can walk to work and cultural events, and many high-rises have on-site concierge service to take care of life's every little need.

• Real estate as an investment. Many high-rise condo buyers are young professionals of both sexes and single women who purchase them as homes - and as their primary investment vehicles.

• An emphasis in some cities on "smart growth." These principles, which promote the protection of open space by concentrating development close to jobs and services and connecting it with mass transit, fit perfectly with high-rise living.

Page, a developer who lives near Clearwater, about 20 miles from Tampa, says that one attraction for him was access to the city's nightlife. "We love Tampa," he says. "We go there almost every single weekend. We'll sometimes stay at one of the nicer hotels there. Well, now, we can just stay at our own place."

'Never get in the car'

Trump Tower Tampa, which will adorn a revitalized Riverwalk on the Hillsborough River in downtown's financial and cultural districts, is attracting buyers who live on Harbour Island, a tony residential enclave near downtown.

"It's the convenience of downtown living," says Jody Simon, a managing partner of SimDag-RoBEL. "You'll see more restaurants and shops. To be able to walk out your door and take a stroll down to your office and never get in the car - that's what people want."

Trump Tower Tampa will be the city's tallest - and most luxurious - high-rise residential building. But Mayor Pam Iorio, who has made downtown residential development a priority of her administration, says three other sets of twin-tower condominiums are planned.

More than 5,000 downtown housing units, many of them high-rise condominiums, have been approved, says Christine Burdick, president of Tampa Downtown Partnership, a non-profit organization that represents downtown property owners and others.

Burdick discounts questions about whether there are enough people here who can afford Trump Tower Tampa. "There is money in this area," she says. "There are people who want to invest in a quality housing product."

Trump, responding to e-mailed questions, says his building will pump energy into Tampa's revitalized downtown.

"A livable city needs downtown residential development," he says. "It's one of the reasons that Manhattan is so great. I believe high-rise living is here to stay."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&e=3&u=/usatoday/20050215/ts_usatoday/niceviewcitiesofallsizesembracinghighriseliving
smiley
February 16th, 2005, 03:13 PM
A reputation built on selling Tampa's biggest buildings
Toni Everett made her name selling some of the area's luxury real estate. Now she sells the biggest name in real estate.
By KRIS HUNDLEY, Times Staff Writer
Published February 16, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[
TAMPA - Toni Everett, real estate agent to the rich, talks fast, walks fast and whips a laser pointer through a sales presentation like a gunslinger at high noon.

For the past three decades, the south Tampa native has made a name selling multimillion-dollar homes and condos. Buzzing down Bayshore Boulevard in her gold Mercedes, she passes her work history writ large: about a dozen high-rises that she had a hand in bringing to full occupancy - and continues to resell.

With a portfolio ranging from the Pinnacle in 1975, which she bluntly describes as having "awful floor plans," to the Alagon, now under construction and nearly sold out, Everett ranks among a handful of local agents able to sell luxury condos at record prices and record pace when they are nothing more than architects' models and thin air.

Now that she has the exclusive on the hottest property in town, Trump Tower Tampa, Everett's pace has gone from frenzied to dead-run.

On Jan.10, the Monday after plans for the 52-story project at 111 S Ashley Drive became public, people were standing in line at Everett's office, handing over $100,000 certified checks just to hold a unit. Everett and two salespeople scrambled to take reservations while another staffer tracked deals on a master spreadsheet, ensuring the same unit wasn't reserved by multiple clients. Meanwhile, phone messages and e-mails from interested buyers piled up.

A month later, Everett and agents at the Toni Everett Co. on the north end of Bayshore Boulevard still were wading through the backlog of messages, returning calls, setting up appointments. The best they could do in most cases was put people on a waiting list: All but four penthouses in the 190-unit project have been reserved with 10 percent refundable deposits. (Just taken: a $6-million, two-floor unit with spa.)

A more concrete measure of interest will come in a few weeks, when the deals go to hard contract. Reservation-holders will be required to kick in another 10 percent and the total deposit becomes non-refundable. If experience holds, 10 to 20 percent of those holding reservations will drop out at contract time, but Everett isn't too worried about the fallout.

"We've probably got backup orders for 80 percent of the units," she said, with a real estate broker's innate optimism. "We have people who were talking to us long ago and we were not able to get them in."

But Everett - jet-black hair contrasting with a pale complexion and firmly lipsticked smile - has not stopped selling. Presenting the Trump project to a Tampa doctor recently, she moved assuredly through a well-practiced pitch. Flicking her laser pointer over an enlarged photo of downtown Tampa, Everett highlighted the project's site and the surrounding neighborhoods, then let the red dot hover over the word "sunsets" printed on the horizon.

"The living areas start at the 11th floor," she said of the project, which has parking from the second to the ninth floors and communal space on the 10th. "From the front of the building, the view is all the way to Anna Maria Island."

Flipping through a big sheaf of blueprints in her cramped conference room, Everett emphasized the Trump Tower's amenities: two pools, a wine cellar, conference center, fitness center, spa. The doctor asked about tennis courts and Everett said, "No, but..." then quickly moved along to descriptions of the project's floor plans.

When the doctor said he was interested in the lowest-priced units, Everett replied that all the standard units, priced from the high $700,000s to $1.5-million, have been reserved. Lowest priced available was a $1.9-million unit on the 12th floor.

The doctor, late for work, plucked up a photocopied brochure on the Trump project and promised to return. As he left, Everett's tiny silver cell phone rang with a call from an agent with the Trump organization: Someone in New York wanted to reserve one of the remaining penthouses.

"We thought most of the reservations would be coming from out of town, but it's been mostly local or from the surrounding areas," said Everett, as she raced to fax the reservation agreement to New York. "Out-of-towners have shown interest, but it was all reserved before they could sign up."

If reservation-holders become residents when the Trump project is completed in about three years, the high-rise will be occupied by young to middle-age business people, some of whom have moved from as nearby as Harbour Island. Everett said none of her buyers have been retirees, and only a handful intend to use it as an investment.

"On my sites, I like to have more users than investors," she said, doodling in perfect penmanship (thanks to her training at Tampa's Academy of the Holy Names) during an unusual lull in the action. "I ask them certain questions that qualify them and when you've been in the business as long as I have, you know immediately."

It was about a year ago when Everett first heard of the project planned for the dirt lot along the Hillsborough River. She interviewed with SimDag/RoBEL LLC, the local developers who brought Trump into the deal. Though she's used to sitting down with developers who are looking for an agent to market and sell their high-priced dreams, Everett said this meeting was different.

"There were about 10 people in the room, asking me questions," she said, showing only a hint of lingering discomfort. "But they were asking about the market and competitive information, and I can spout that stuff out really fast."

In June she got the assignment, agreeing to keep mum about Trump's involvement. Dr. Howard Howell, one of SimDag/RoBEL's five managing partners, said Everett was one of a handful of real estate agents considered.

"She's familiar with the market and has demonstrated a track record," he said. "Plus she had the ability and client base to sell these units."

Everett, whose business is based on discretion, declined to discuss the nature of her contract with the developers. But she said condo presales generally have lower commission rates than the 6 percent traditionally received from residential sales.

"There's less commission per unit, because you're doing it in bulk," Everett said. "And you put out a lot of upfront time and expenses because you don't get paid until the project is built. But I do development sites because I enjoy it. It's fun."

With Trump, Everett has been involved in everything from helping develop the marketing strategy, critiquing the condo documents and reviewing the floor plans, to designing and staffing the sales center that will open next week on the fifth floor of the office building abutting the site . She also has been closely involved with planning for the invitation-only launch party there on Friday, where Donald Trump will be schmoozing with potential buyers.

Everett has about 35 site agents assigned to her assorted developments - in addition to Trump, she's handling the Plaza on Harbour Island (with Tampa's Smith & Associates), the O2 condos in Channelside, Hyde Park Walk in Tampa and Porto Bellagio in South Florida. Another 35 general agents handle residential and condo resales through her office.

Everett's sister, Patty Clark, handles office operations. Her daughter, Henderson Everett Lee, an agent, is working with her mom on the Trump project. Son Anthony Everett, who is vice president of the Toni Everett Co. as well as developer for Atlanta's Post Properties in Florida, is handling the apartment-to-condo conversion at Hyde Park Walk.

Everett, meanwhile, acts as a slightly scattered ringmaster, flitting from one sales office to the next, blowing into the office for appointments, keeping all the balls in the air.

"I like making sure sales happen," said Everett, who repeatedly ranks among the area's top real estate agents in sales. "The variety of people you're dealing with makes the job interesting."

Having pushed well into middle age without coming up for air, Everett detests talking about her age. "People like young," she said, firmly ending the discussion. Named for her father, Dr. Anthony P. Perzia who died in January, Everett learned early about long hours and love of work.

"My grandfather (an ophthalmologist) would start operating at 2 a.m. in the morning and work until 5 p.m.," Anthony Everett said. "My mom is the same way; she can live on three or four hours of sleep a night. In my teens, when she started working real estate, I remember her always being on the phone. Now she's got two or three cell phones with her at all times."

Everett, who graduated from Rollins College and worked for a few years in the fashion business in New York, started in real estate in the mid 1970s as her marriage to Sonny Everett was ending. One of her early projects was the Pinnacle on Bayshore, where out-of-town developers were trying to salvage the development after the construction company went bankrupt.

"I helped finish and sell out that building," Everett said. "Then a bank came and asked me to help with another building on Bayshore and it just boomeranged."

Pace of sales was steady for decades. Then, about two years ago, condo sales started accelerating.

The Alagon on Bayshore, with 50 units, sold out in three months at prices from $700,000 to $2.5-million. The Plaza on Harbour Island, announced in late summer, has sold 75 percent of its 114 units, at prices up to $3-million, and plans construction in the spring.

Hyde Park Walk, with 134 units being converted to condo, had buyers for all but a few of the units, most priced at under $500,000, within a matter of days.

Such indicators make Everett unwilling to give Donald Trump entire credit for the frenzy surrounding his Tampa project.

"It's a market that was moving anyway," she said, although admitting Trump's high profile may have added some fuel to the fire. "Buyers were already consuming anything that came on the market. There's been so much hype about downtown for so long, it's finally hit."

--Kris Hundley can be reached at hundley@sptimes.com or 727892-2996.

[Last modified February 16, 2005, 03:03:03]
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/02/16/Business/A_reputation_built_on.shtml
Jasonhouse
February 16th, 2005, 04:06 PM
That's an extremely informative article. It basically proves that the TTT and Plaza are indeed going to be getting built sooner, rather than later.
CBR3
February 17th, 2005, 04:24 PM
Some good background, some fluff.

They brought Trump to Tampa

Trying to figure out how to spur interest in their project, one brainstormed: What if we called it Trump Tower?

By KRIS HUNDLEY, Times Staff Writer
Published February 17, 2005

Before they landed Donald Trump as their partner in developing the tallest high-rise in the Tampa Bay area, the five principals of SimDag/RoBEL LLC had been dabbling in local real estate and accumulating wealth in relative obscurity.

Jody Simon and Frank Dagostino made a windfall from the sale of a medical education company seven years ago, then parlayed it into even greater riches through development of gulffront condos. Robert E. Lyons, who once had a company called Cookie Cutter Properties, became their exclusive builder and partner about a year ago.

Dr. Howard L. Howell, an orthodontist with three offices in the Tampa Bay area, has been developing commercial properties with Clearwater entrepreneur and commercial real estate agent Patrick J. Sheppard for 15 years. Together the pair has completed nearly 30 properties between Tampa and Orlando and one in Destin.

A few years ago, the five men joined to propose a mixed-use project on Clearwater Beach. That deal fell apart when land values skyrocketed, but the men kept in touch and by 2003 they were working on another idea.

Howell and Sheppard had found a promising parcel along the Hillsborough River in the heart of downtown Tampa. Dagostino, Simon and Lyons, partners in SimDag LLC, were intrigued.

Jointly as SimDag/RoBEL (formed from a compilation of family names), the five men purchased the existin g six-floor office building and parking lot a t 102 W Whiting St. Next they added the vacant lot at S Ashley Drive and W Brorein Street. Total purchase price of the properties: $16-million.

The men decided to renovate the office building and then considered several options for the empty space next door: offices, hotel, retail. Despite the modest height of their previous endeavors, none of which topped 10 stories, they decided the location called for something big. Their proposal: a 52-story luxury condo project on 1.5 acres.

Once they had the concept and a working model, the partners began tossing around ideas to give their project some pizazz and distinguish it from other residential towers being planned around Tampa's urban core. At one weekly meeting, Dagostino, at 34 the youngest of the group, brashly suggested, "What if we call it Trump Tower?"

The partners laughed, left and returned a week later convinced it wasn't such a dumb idea after all. Through some of Dagostino's real estate contacts in New Jersey, they sent out feelers to the Trump organization.

Initial response from Trump's representatives was encouraging. Trump, who had visited Tampa with George Steinbrenner in the past, liked the market and the idea of putting his name on the tallest building on the city's skyline.

The project's architectural design, by Tampa's Alcides Santiesteban, was on par with Trump's other properties.

"We had exceeded even Trump's standards in some areas," boasted Howell of the New York developer's initial response. "That went a long way to getting his attention."

Last summer, after SimDag/RoBEL's partners made their first trip to Trump's headquarters - riding up in the elevator with the winner of the first Apprentice series - they came away fairly confident a deal could be done.

"Then it was just a matter of the deal making its way through the details," said Simon, managing partner of SimDag LLC.

For the next several months, there was nearly daily phone contact between the local developers and Trump's senior counsel and property management team. Trump representatives flew down on several occasions to walk the site and meet with the project's architect, contractors and marketers.

Once they came to terms on an agreement, Trump's people didn't hesitate to tweak SimDag/RoBEL's initial plans: adjusting the traffic flow through the lobby, approving high-end finishes and fixtures, helping to design everything from elevator entrances to the wine cellar to the guest suites.

Among the amenities added for residents with professional-grade kitchens but no time or interest in cooking: computer touch screens in each condo that allow owners to reach the building's concierge and valet, as well as order room service from the restaurant on the ground level.

Simon, who, with Dagostino and Lyons, 47, has completed 129 waterfront condos, said Trump's team did not flinch at the local development group's lack of experience with high-rise construction.

"It's not like we're going to be doing this by ourselves," Simon said, adding that experienced contractors, engineers and builders have joined the development team.

Nor did the New Yorkers doubt that the Tampa market could absorb high-end urban condos at record-setting price levels of up to $6-million.

"You're talking about people who pushed the limits far beyond where we would have pushed them," Simon said of the Trump group.

Despite the heavy involvement of Trump's executives in hammering out details of the project, SimDag/RoBEL's partners did not meet the man himself until they signed their agreement in New York City on Jan.10.

Their second meeting is planned for Friday, when Trump will come to Tampa to open the project's sales office.

The local partners refuse to go into detail about their arrangement with Trump.

"We all have a financial obligation and we all receive financial remuneration," Howell said. "He is an active and participating partner."

Responding to reports that Trump is simply receiving a payment for the use of his name on the project, Dagostino, whose throw-away suggestion became a reality, said, "It probably would be a lot easier if w e were only using his name."

The partners in SimDag/RoBEL, hardly a household name locally, credit Trump with bringing their project unparalleled publicity when it is still nothing more than an architect's model.

"It has far exceeded our expectations," Simon said of the 190-unit project, which is nearly 100 percent reserved. Nor is he worried that buyers will get cold feet when they're forced to put down a nonrefundable, 20 percent deposit.

"If buyers fall out, they're going to lose, because we're immediately going to raise the prices," Simon said. "We've got so many buyers on backup, it won't be a problem."

Despite the magnitude of the Trump project, which is slated to break ground in the spring and be completed in three years, the partners all remain busy on other projects. Howell, 57, continues to see patients four days a week, and he and Sheppard, 58, have 29 units of townhomes under construction on Clearwater Beach, with additional condo projects planned in Tarpon Springs and north Clearwater.

The three partners in SimDag have three condo projects under construction on waterfront in Pinellas County, with an additional seven planned for groundbreaking this year. They also are involved in an apartment conversion project in Maryland and two condo developments on the New Jersey shore, where they own a construction and two real estate companies.

Simon, who is a licensed pharmacist, and Dagostino, whose background is in sales, also own a medical communications business, a marketing company, a biotech startup and a clinical research network.

"We don't just develop buildings, we develop companies," Dagostino said. "We invest in companies and help them grow."

Simon, 48, appears to be a master at juggling vastly diverse interests. The son of "The Great Malenko," professional wrestling's pre-eminent bad boy in the 1960s and '70s, Simon himself spent time on the pro wrestling circuit, mostly in Japan.

He and Dagostino met a decade ago while both were both working for a medical publisher in Tampa. The duo decided to launch their own company, Cortex Communications, in 1995, catering to the lucrative market for medical education and publications.

With an abundance of chutzpah, hard work and a high-tech answering machine that made potential clients think the business was more than a kitchen-table startup, the two men landed deep-pocket drugmakers as clients. By 1998, the company had 75 employees and $11.5-million in revenues. Late that year they hit the jackpot when Cortex was acquired by HealthAnswers Inc., a Pennsylvania company backed by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen.

Neither Simon nor Dagostino will say how much money they cleared in the sale, but they still marvel at their timing.

"Soon after the sale, the tech bubble burst and it was ugly, to say the least," said Simon, who remained with HealthAnswers for a short time while Dagostino, who had no medical background, was released immediately. "But that deal gave us the seed for everything we're doing today."

Right now the focus is on preparing for the next stage of Trump-mania. This week, SimDag/RoBEL had employees scurrying to spruce up the site for their big-name partner's scheduled visit on Friday.

In the sales center on W Whiting, a worker was painting an electrical outlet with an artist's brush, trying to match the mottled wash on the wall. Window-washers dangled outside the fifth-floor sales center, making sure the view of the river sparkled. Trump's representatives and marketing reps were mapping out access to the site for their boss' limo.

Though the partners try to take the frenzy surrounding Trump in stride, they admit there are times when they are somewhat daunted at the scope of what they've undertaken.

"If you don't feel that way," Howell said, "you're not being honest."

--Times news researcher Kitty Bennett contributed to this report. Kris Hundley can be reached at hundley@sptimes.com or 727 892-2996.

www.sptimes.com/2005/02/17/Business/They_brought_Trump_to.shtml
Jasonhouse
February 18th, 2005, 03:35 AM
btw, wasn't this site once proposed for like a 8-10 story office building?

TTT, is definitely better than that. The TTT getting built is good, if only because another piece of the riverwalk gets built.
smiley
February 18th, 2005, 04:23 AM
Yes it was and Yes it is.

I just want dirt to start moving on these things.
FLHawk
February 19th, 2005, 03:19 AM
The Donald was in town tonight for the grand gala kickoff, or whatever. I saw a snippet of his speech on Bay News 9, and he mentioned that not only would TTT be the tallest tower on the Gulf Coast, but that "it's not even close," or something to that effect. If I'm not mistaken, it's not going to be ALL that much taller than 100 N Tampa, our current tallest.
jvance75
February 19th, 2005, 04:48 AM
http://www.trumptowertampa.com/images/side_content/section_2.gif
smiley
February 19th, 2005, 04:49 AM
With the sales as they are tehy may add a few floors - theoretically. There was a reporter who said it would be over 600', but that may just be that the reporter is an idiot. I would take that as the likely explanation. And, in fact, I would rather they build this thing (but add 7 feet to it, dammit) and then build another fancy tower downtown.
tonyff67
February 19th, 2005, 05:35 AM
I really like the way the building looks with it plugged in to the skyline like that. Very cool pic!
Dale
February 19th, 2005, 05:49 AM
http://www.trumptowertampa.com/images/side_content/section_2.gif

Now *that's* what I'm talking about ! :)

Looks well over 600 ft. too.
jvance75
February 19th, 2005, 06:14 AM
in color....yet not the best angle to show downtown as a whole at all...i just hope the parking lots are gone within the next few years and connects with channelside...talk about dense then.

http://www.trumptowertampa.com/images/gallery/model/model_1.jpg
jvance75
February 19th, 2005, 06:55 AM
Trump Fires Up Tampa Project With A Couple Of Surprises
By DAVE SIMANOFF dsimanoff@tampatrib.com
Published: Feb 19, 2005

TAMPA - Billionaire developer Donald Trump came to Tampa on Friday night to open the sales center for his newest project, Trump Tower Tampa, and to deliver two surprises:

First, he said nearly every condominium in the 52-story, 190-unit tower is reserved.

Second, his development group will donate $100,000 to The Tampa Museum of Art.

``Maybe we'll just stay in Tampa,'' he joked after arriving with his new wife, Melania. ``Who needs Palm Beach?''

Trump Tower Tampa, announced last month, will sit at the northwest corner of Ashley Drive and Brorein Street along the Hillsborough River. The $220 million building promises to be Tampa's tallest. At 593 feet, it will be at least 10 feet taller than Bank of America Plaza and 100 North Tampa, the area's two tallest.

Construction is scheduled to begin in April or May, Trump said. Condos are expected to open to residents in 2007.

Trump Tower Tampa boasts some of the highest condominium prices seen in Tampa, with units starting at $700,000 and running to more than $6 million. Most units will cost $1 million to $2 million. Sizes range from 1,991 square feet to 6,150 square feet.

All but 2 percent of the condominiums have been reserved. The remaining units are spoken for, but the people making the reservations haven't fully paid deposits yet, said Toni Everett, head of The Toni Everett Co., the Tampa- based brokerage handling sales for Trump Tower Tampa.

Reservations, which are 10 percent of the sales price, are refundable. When construction begins, buyers will be asked to make nonrefundable down payments on their units.

There is a waiting list of potential buyers in case any of the people making reservations back out, Everett said.

Trump said many of the buyers are Tampa residents who plan to make Trump Tower Tampa their primary residence. He said some New Yorkers, including some athletes, have made reservations for condominiums.

``I think you're going to see a lot of Yankees living here,'' he said. ``They certainly have the money.''

Trump said he and his wife may buy a small unit.

Trump Tower Tampa bears Trump's name, but credit for the project falls mainly to SimDag-RoBEL LLC, a local development group that has been planning a high-rise luxury condominium at the corner since January 2003.

The tower will be billed as a Donald J. Trump Signature Property because it represents a partnership between the Trump Organization and a local developer. The Trump Organization has similar partnerships with other development groups working on projects in Miami-Dade County's Sunny Isles Beach, Fort Lauderdale's beachfront and downtown Toronto.

Trump said his partnership with SimDag-RoBEL is more than a licensing or marketing arrangement. He said he owns less than 50 percent of the project, which he called ``a substantial stake'' he wouldn't mind increasing.

SimDag-RoBEL partners were ecstatic to host Trump and show off their sales center. The center, in Suite 502 at 102 W. Whiting St. in downtown Tampa, opens to the public Monday.

Jody Simon, one of the managing partners of SimDag-RoBEL, said the response to Trump Tower Tampa exceeded his expectations. ``It's overwhelming.''

The donation to The Tampa Museum of Art will come in three phases: one-third now, one-third when workers reach the top floor of the new building, and the final one-third at the grand opening.

Museum backers are $2 million shy of the $46.5 million they need to start construction of a new museum. The total cost of the museum, designed by architect Rafael Vinoly, is approximately $76 million.

Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio applauded the donation.

``It's wonderful that you have someone who's new to Tampa investing in our downtown and in our cultural institutions,'' she said.

http://www.tampatrib.com/MGBU26LBD5E.html
Dale
February 19th, 2005, 06:56 AM
So beige with green glass ?

And will Skypoint be just behind and to the right of the beercan in this pic ?
jvance75
February 19th, 2005, 07:09 AM
yes, in that area
Jasonhouse
February 19th, 2005, 08:02 AM
TTT's interaction with the river appears to be quite lame.
smiley
February 19th, 2005, 03:05 PM
Yea, but I like the rendering - even if it is exaggerrated - that doesn't look like a 15 foot differencei n that rednering, but, so be it.
Jasonhouse
February 19th, 2005, 05:06 PM
Renderings are ALWAYS overscaled, but especially on landmark highrises. I've never yet in my entire life seen a rendering of a new 'tallest' that was accurate.

I can remember one for a NYC condo a few years ago where the renderings and marketing claimed the tower would be the "3rd" skyline landmark in Midtown, after ESB and Chrysler... In the renderings (and they were numerous) the building looked like it was easily 900-1000ft tall... And when built, the building wasn't even 650ft tall!.
loureed
February 19th, 2005, 05:19 PM
I can't believe how much surface parking lots take up in many American downtowns.
brickell
February 19th, 2005, 05:22 PM
I love the renderings. It looks like it'll fit in with the city much better than I originally thought. I don't think the river walk looks too bad. At least it's there. Are all new developments required to have public access like that? I would assume that this being Trump there'd be some gold plated art installations installed there eventually.
Dale
February 19th, 2005, 07:32 PM
Why is Trump saying "tallest" and "nothing is even close" if only 14 ft. Is it the Trumpology factor of equating height with number of floors I wonder ?
smiley
February 19th, 2005, 07:41 PM
I can't believe how much surface parking lots take up in many American downtowns.

Those lots really should be the location of the next boom - the alleged Four Seasons, if ever built, is supposed to go in there - but that much open land right between the CBD (as it were) and Channelside (O2 will be just accross the highway from those lots) - should draw something interesting relatively soon - unless the property owners are complete idiots - which they may be.
loureed
February 19th, 2005, 07:47 PM
^^^

Cool. The tower's donation to the art museum sounds more promising. I have this renewed love for Tampa all of a sudden. She ain't so bad after all.
Dale
February 19th, 2005, 07:55 PM
^^^

Cool. The tower's donation to the art museum sounds more promising. I have this renewed love for Tampa all of a sudden. She ain't so bad after all.

So you won't be moving to England ? :wink2:
Dale
February 19th, 2005, 07:56 PM
Those lots really should be the location of the next boom - the alleged Four Seasons, if ever built, is supposed to go in there - but that much open land right between the CBD (as it were) and Channelside (O2 will be just accross the highway from those lots) - should draw something interesting relatively soon - unless the property owners are complete idiots - which they may be.

I take it the Hogan proposal died a while back ?
smiley
February 19th, 2005, 08:01 PM
Hogan office plan is dead - hass been for a couple of years, but, like I said, I would not be surprised to see some sort of mixed thingy pop again.
CBR3
April 25th, 2005, 02:56 PM
Trump Tower development team puts ruins expert on site
Ken Salgat
Staff Writer

TAMPA -- The $220-million Trump Tower Tampa project has cleared another obstacle.

In March, The Tampa Bay Business Journal discovered the development team of billionaire New York City developer Donald Trump and Tampa-based SimDag/RoBEL LLC had yet to conduct an archeological survey on its property at the southwest corner of Whiting Street and Ashley Drive.

While the project may not be as close to breaking ground as Donald Trump led reporters to believe in a Feb. 18 press conference, the development team now has its expert on ruins in place, as required by the city.

"They hired the archaeologist and conducted a thorough survey in March," said Susan Johnson, a Tampa urban planner. "The state has signed off on it, and my office received the documentation April 6."

Developers are required to retain an archeologist if there's a belief artifacts could be present at a development site. Because of its proximity to past projects where artifacts were found, the city had precedent to make it a requirement.
A penthouse for $6 million

Located on 1.5-acres at 111 S. Ashley Drive, the 51-story building would include 192 condominium and penthouse units ranging from 1,991 square feet to 6,150 square feet. Prices range from $700,000 to more than $6 million for the penthouse and other top units.

Steve Erdmann, chief plans examiner in the city's commercial services division, said the developer has been working with the city to keep the project moving forward. However, a timeframe for going to vertical construction could still be weeks away.

"The complexity, size, impact to the surrounding community and the sensitivity of the project are all factors that can affect when it's approved," said Erdmann. "They have not filed for a building permit, but they have filed for a foundation permit and site review."

David Hooks, a spokesman for the developers, said the group expects to request a building permit in late May, not early May as originally planned.

"You have to go down before you can go up, and the foundation permit is in (requested)," said Hooks. "We're still working on a construction date, but with all the players in this it is difficult to get all your ducks in a row."

ksalgat@bizjournals.com | 813.342.2477

© 2005 American City Business Journals Inc.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/04/25/story7.html
John F
April 25th, 2005, 09:56 PM
post to be deleted :p
MIAballinboi
April 25th, 2005, 09:58 PM
^thats good news,

good thing they didnt find no "tampa circle" or some ruins that would have ruined this project, but no one can stop the donald ne way, theres one less obstacle for this tower
Jasonhouse
April 25th, 2005, 10:28 PM
^Right?

We all knew that the project wasn't going to start as soon as Trump was trumpeting... But sitework continues, and it looks like they will indeed begin working on the foundation in a month or less.
John F
May 24th, 2005, 10:11 PM
Any chance soemoen coudl be able to snap some photos of the work being done on teh site now?
randommichael
May 24th, 2005, 10:19 PM
Any chance soemoen coudl be able to snap some photos of the work being done on teh site now?

All they have done so far is put small stakes in the ground...and set up a portapotty. Not much to see. In fact, today there are some cars parked over there where the parking lot they ripped up used to be...
randommichael
May 25th, 2005, 05:43 PM
I just looked over at the site and there is a bulldozer there doing some digging today. I would think the official groundbreaking would be coming soon.
Jasonhouse
May 25th, 2005, 05:59 PM
^Grading, which is what the stakes were for. This doesn't necessarily imply groundbreaking, but it is usually a precursor.
smiley
May 25th, 2005, 07:56 PM
I beleive, given the activity and the trailer (which is missing at the Towers at Channelside site (last time I checked)) give a pretty good indication that something will get going relatively soon - will it be next week - who knows. But soon enough.
FLHawk
May 25th, 2005, 09:00 PM
This summer promises to be a hotbed of construction activity in downtown Tampa.

Already started -
- The Meridian
- Grand Central
- Residences at Franklin Street
- Ventana
- The Arlington
- 1000 Channelside
- Embassy Suites

Starting soon -
- Trump Tower Tampa
- SkyPoint
- The Place
- UT Dorms
- The Plaza Harbour Island
- Towers of Channelside (?)
moxwax
May 25th, 2005, 09:35 PM
Add O2 to that list as well (hopefully!)
matttampa
May 25th, 2005, 09:51 PM
There looks to be some trucks and steel on the skypoint location. Go to www.tecocam.com for a look.
smiley
May 25th, 2005, 11:45 PM
Sweet - soil testing . . . preliminary drilling . . . ahhhhh . . .

It will be nice to watch the construction through this web cam
smiley
May 25th, 2005, 11:47 PM
Man you can zoom with that cam - that looks like rebar
kazpmk
June 21st, 2005, 04:39 AM
update anyone??
Jasonhouse
June 21st, 2005, 05:06 AM
^Still scrounging around with dirt pushing.
smiley
June 21st, 2005, 06:56 PM
The Trib - in the article on the riverwalk - referred to it as "under cosntruction"- but whatever - they are getting there.
Jasonhouse
June 22nd, 2005, 12:17 AM
I walked by the site today... They are doing site clearing still. Definitely not what most industry pros would consider "under construction"... But it's clear it will be very soon.
The Mad Hatter!!
June 22nd, 2005, 12:28 AM
so did they ever sell the 6million dollar penthouse
Dale
June 22nd, 2005, 12:37 AM
so did they ever sell the 6million dollar penthouse

Yes, I purchased it. :cheers:
smiley
June 22nd, 2005, 03:51 AM
In fact they did, but the buyer already lives in Tampa.
SDK4
June 22nd, 2005, 06:30 AM
I wonder how often Trump will be down here to visit his tower considering he loves spending most of his time at his Mir-Mar castle on the East Coast.
FloridaFuture
July 2nd, 2005, 04:26 PM
I guess TTT will be 591 feet, this article also talks about the Pinnacle project

Trump Tower Tampa To Be Trimmed By 2 Feet

Published: Jul 2, 2005

TAMPA - Trump Tower Tampa won't reach the 593 feet originally planned.
Although the tower at the southwest corner of Whiting Street and Ashley Drive still will become downtown's tallest building, it will be 2 feet shorter because of a recommendation by the Federal Aviation Administration.

The FAA conducts air space studies to make sure the structure doesn't interfere with radar or flight paths.

In the downtown core, height restrictions don't exist unless the building or tower creates a hazard. Outside this core, the height zoning is 120 feet. In the Channel District, the height allowance is 60 feet.

Frank DeBose plans The Pinnacle of Tampa Bay in the Channel District as a four- block complex of condominiums including a 624-foot observation tower. He said he is working through the FAA recommendation. ``We'll have everything we need,'' he said, ``when the time comes.''

The FAA doesn't tell developers outright to limit the height of buildings, spokeswoman Kathleen Berger said.

``Our air space recommendation just carries a lot of weight with insurers,'' she said.

Janis D. Froelich

http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGBTYISCNAE.html
smiley
July 2nd, 2005, 07:59 PM
2 feet - msot bizarre - nothing flies there except the helicopters to the hospital - like 2 feet will make a difference.
Jasonhouse
July 2nd, 2005, 10:06 PM
^The FAA is so full of shit. yeah, because 2ft matters to aircraft...
John F
July 2nd, 2005, 10:09 PM
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5223/dsc000264li.jpg

From Brobinson's post on the "Picture fo Downtown Tampa" thread....
Dale
July 3rd, 2005, 05:54 AM
^The FAA is so full of shit. yeah, because 2ft matters to aircraft...

"Fight 290, you're at 591 ft. Dangerously low. Pull up ! Pull up ! ... Uh, Flight 290, we have you at 593 ft. now. Looking good."
FloridaFuture
July 3rd, 2005, 03:18 PM
"Fight 290, you're at 591 ft. Dangerously low. Pull up ! Pull up ! ... Uh, Flight 290, we have you at 593 ft. now. Looking good."

But according to the article that won't clear the Pinnacle at 624 feet!!
Gotta pull up 32 more feet! :)
randommichael
July 28th, 2005, 06:18 PM
Looking over at the Trump Tower site from my window...there is alot of activity there today. There is a small crane and several trucks. Lots of people. I think we should be seeing an official groundbreaking soon!
CBR3
July 29th, 2005, 03:15 PM
Digging to begin Monday but.........

Costs Soar For Trump Tower
By SHANNON BEHNKEN sbehnken@tampatrib.com
Published: Jul 29, 2005

advertisement
Click Here!
TAMPA - If you have a reservation for Trump Tower Tampa, you may have to dig deeper to pay for it.

Developers say they underestimated the cost of building the 52-story, 190-unit tower under construction downtown along the Hillsborough River.

``There's obviously been an increase in construction costs, and we're going to have to charge more,'' David Hooks, spokesman for the complex, said Thursday. ``It's up to the [the buyers] to accept or not. We hope they stay with us, but if they don't, we know there are a lot of people who want these units.''

Hooks would not say how much more the complex would cost to build or how much more buyers would have to pay.

When asked whether the increase could be as high as $1 million, he said it wouldn't be that much.

``Some of the units will have no increase, some will,'' Hooks said. ``Some will go up more than others. We need more discussions between the buyers and the developers before we get into more details.''

The criteria used to determine the increase, Hooks said, includes the unit size and floor.

When the Trump project was announced earlier this year, developers said the building would cost $220 million to build. The complex includes some of Tampa's highest condominium prices. Units were originally priced between $700,000 and more than $6 million, with most costing $1 million to $2 million.

The local development company building the complex is SimDag-RoBEL LLC. The tower is a Donald J. Trump Signature Property because of a partnership between the Trump Organization and the local developer.

All of the condo units are spoken for, and the buyers of the 32 penthouses already have signed formal contracts, said real estate agent Toni Everett.

The Toni Everett Company is handling the reservations and is in the middle of informing reservation holders of the news. Although not everyone has been notified, most buyers seem understanding, said Eric Panico, on-site agent.

``Everybody has been anticipating this because construction prices have gone up,'' Panico said. ``A reservation is just a reservation. If [buyers] don't pay, we have people who will.''

There are more than 270 people on a waiting list to purchase units in the complex, Panico said.

Initial reservations required a 10 percent holding fee. Buyers will be expected to pay an additional 10 percent down payment upon signing the final contract. That amount will be adjusted to reflect the new purchase price, Panico said. Once the contract is signed, Hooks said, the price won't change.

More than two dozen other downtown condo projects have either recently opened, started construction or are in the planning stages. None of the others have reported raising prices from the initial reservation price.

But Hooks said others probably will.

``This is not something directed only to Trump Tower,'' he said. ``If this wasn't necessary, it wouldn't happen.''

Hooks said the company has a financing commitment to fund construction and expects to execute it soon. He would not identify the lender.

Workers at the Trump Tower Tampa site at the corner of South Ashley Drive and East Brorein Street said late Wednesday that they had not been notified of any slowdown or work stoppage. Digging for the 591-foot tower's foundation is set to begin Monday, they said.

Reporter Anthony McCartney contributed to this report. Reporter Shannon Behnken can be reached at (813) 259-7804.

www.tampatrib.com/MGBRX1VPPBE.html
Jasonhouse
July 29th, 2005, 03:23 PM
That article is totally innaccurate when it says that other projects haven't changed their prices to reflect higher construction costs.... Several projects have done that, including doing it when people had already reserved units.

Sometimes, these reporters drive me nuts.
CBR3
July 29th, 2005, 07:20 PM
I guess the Apprentice couldn't keep a lid on the costs!! Your fired!!! And I do remember some other projects increasing pricing although I do not remeber which ones.
robbie
July 29th, 2005, 08:34 PM
If the people in TTT have a problem with the increase, then they don't need to be there to begin with. I mean somebody that can afford a 6 million dollar penthouse is probably worth a lot more than that.
FLHawk
July 29th, 2005, 08:37 PM
The Meridian did for sure. Heard the Towers of Channelside were considering at one point, but no confirmation on whether or not they did.
SDK4
August 8th, 2005, 05:22 AM
I know this is off topic, but I just saw the Donald Trump Domino's Pizza comercial for the first time and hahahahahahaha is all I can say!!! :)
John F
August 8th, 2005, 03:16 PM
I don't know if that commercial is a step up or a step down for The Donald...

I mean, he WAS doing Pizza Hut commercials in the 1990's....
SDK4
August 9th, 2005, 04:12 AM
He's obviously getting ready to drum up support for the new season of the Apprentice, even if that means making himself look like a dummy on TV.
channelside.us
August 21st, 2005, 02:58 PM
here is the current construction situation of TTT:

http://www.channelside.us/projects.cfm?pic=at
smiley
August 21st, 2005, 05:48 PM
Sure is a busy place for a project that hasn't "broken ground" yet
http://www.channelside.us/images/at.png
FloridaFuture
August 21st, 2005, 07:48 PM
Yep, I think that will be breaking ground within a weak. That land is flatter then Skypoints and Skypoint is U/C.
smiley
August 21st, 2005, 07:51 PM
I'm taking wagers on how fast they will crack the seawall . . . though I don't think they have URS (or whoever the crosstown guys were) doing the work, so it may take a little while.
FloridaFuture
August 21st, 2005, 07:58 PM
I'm taking wagers on how fast they will crack the seawall . . . though I don't think they have URS (or whoever the crosstown guys were) doing the work, so it may take a little while.

Ew, your right. That seawall looks pretty un stable with random damged polls sticking out of the water. BTW, what is that yellow tubing in the water?
John F
August 21st, 2005, 08:26 PM
that's to keep debrit from spreading from the shore (and construction) into the rest of the water... YOu see those things around every construction project on the water and you also see them surrounding oil spills in an attempt to contain them
smiley
August 21st, 2005, 08:43 PM
Yes, but they only stop what floats . . .anyway, maybe by Christmas we can have the big party cranes (with Christmas lights like in the 80's) up for all to see.
FloridaFuture
August 21st, 2005, 10:22 PM
Thanks guys. Its better to stop the floating stuff then no stuff. :cheers:
BRobinson
August 21st, 2005, 10:48 PM
Passed by the TTT site Friday and there was a huge cylindrical piece of equipment there..... Has anyone seen this? Or know what this is used for?
Jasonhouse
August 21st, 2005, 10:55 PM
^Placing caissons.
John F
August 22nd, 2005, 01:12 AM
Freedum Columns
jvance75
August 22nd, 2005, 01:45 AM
really getting sick of that post everytime someone posts caissons
FloridaFuture
August 22nd, 2005, 02:36 AM
really getting sick of that post everytime someone posts caissons

lol :lol:
smiley
August 22nd, 2005, 10:29 PM
Can anyone identify the big yellow thing on the NE corner of the lot?
Jasonhouse
August 23rd, 2005, 04:28 PM
^I'll drive by later today and try to figure it out. I can't tell from the pic.
BRobinson
August 24th, 2005, 01:13 AM
^This is what i was referring to (huge cylindrical piece of equipment).... It is not on the pic
smiley
August 24th, 2005, 01:57 AM
Ah, now I see the confusion - there is a yellow caisson related thing there, but there is also the big yellow thing of unknown utility
robbie
August 25th, 2005, 04:50 AM
Another thing here is: Will Ashley be closed when it starts getting vertical or will Ashley be one way? Any thoughts?
FloridaFuture
August 25th, 2005, 01:22 PM
Another thing here is: Will Ashley be closed when it starts getting vertical or will Ashley be one way? Any thoughts?

Well, thats a question for all deveolpments in Downtown. However with Skypoint when they are working on Ahsley, they only have had to close 1 out of 2 (so far) of Ashley Northbound lanes. Hopefully (maybe) thats all they'll have to do for TTT. :)
SDK4
August 27th, 2005, 06:28 AM
Any traffic concerns?
smiley
September 1st, 2005, 11:05 PM
Ok, now I am really fascinated as they were pouring concrete into something inside the very large yellow thing on the NE corner of the lot. Really odd stuff . . . any explanation would be appreciated.
John F
September 1st, 2005, 11:15 PM
Taking a stab here Smiley:

Now, i don't know WHAT is being done as I have not seen it but LAST time we saw early-processes Concrete pouring, it was just a "This is how you do it" type of application going on at Skypoint (the arch).

That may be the case at the Trump site, with whatever they are doing. I'm curious what is going on too - espectially with your posts.
Jasonhouse
September 2nd, 2005, 07:19 AM
I saw them dumping the concrete in there today too. I saw the yellow thing last week, and it was obviously a form for a cylinder. I'm not sure what would be that big though.

It looks like all of the projects u/c are doing well, and making good progress. Only 1000 Channelside seems to be going slowly IMO.
smiley
September 2nd, 2005, 03:18 PM
From what I can tell of the rendering - that area is supposed to not have anything built on it, which is why I think it may be a base for a crane - why would you possibly make any practice run on something so big.
Casey
September 21st, 2005, 06:34 PM
Trump Shores Up
The developers of Trump Tower Tampa said Tuesday that they are reinforcing the sea wall that abuts their property along the Hillsborough River. Spokesman David Hooks said the wall was not strong enough to support the 52-foot condominium tower. Hooks said he did not know how long the work would take and would not set a date for the tower's completion. Developers still need final permit approval for the tower.

http://www.tampatribune.com/Business/MGBV7QMVUDE.html
Jasonhouse
September 21st, 2005, 09:06 PM
Sorry, I haven't been paying any attention to this project's site for a couple weeks...

is it actually u/c, or are they still doing site work (seawall)?
Casey
September 21st, 2005, 09:18 PM
^ As of last weekend when I was downtown, they are still doing sitework.
robbie
October 5th, 2005, 09:45 PM
Now it's hard to tell what's going on with the tall fence up. You can park somewhere and look at it from Brorein over the river. Other than that, you can't see clearly from Ashley.
Jasonhouse
October 6th, 2005, 12:44 AM
^I prefer going to the top of the Wachovia garage, as I did today.

Nope, nothing worth mention is coming out of the ground yet.
randommichael
October 6th, 2005, 06:36 PM
I have a great view from 400 N. Ashely (AKA Rivergate Tower). It looks like they are moving some dirt and mostly working on the sea wall. Nothing exciting yet.
robbie
October 11th, 2005, 08:44 PM
Since you are right there, could you be willing to give us updates? At least twice a month?
Jasonhouse
October 11th, 2005, 09:54 PM
^I will be checking it at least that frequently, as will others, I'm sure.
robbie
October 12th, 2005, 03:05 AM
Thanks Jason. Where do you think the next hot property will be in the big T?
robbie
October 12th, 2005, 03:11 AM
Sounds like fun! Maybe that's what I should do. Actually, in the spring I'd like to ride my bike around DT and Bayshore. Just don't want to get burned by the blazing sun. What the hell...
Jasonhouse
October 12th, 2005, 03:15 AM
^???

I thought it might be where that riverside hotel (or whatever it's called) near Ashley/Kennedy, but someone already bought that, and is dumping several million into a renovation.

basically 'any' underdeveloped waterfront property in Tampa is going get very hot in the coming years. However, I don't think it will be very soon, since there are already thousands of units already planned or under development on several sites around the city.
robbie
October 12th, 2005, 03:39 AM
What do you think the chances of this hotel's survival is? Do you think a condo will do better on this site?
smiley
October 12th, 2005, 04:02 AM
The Trump lot was unique in the core of Tampa as it had been discussed as a high rise lot for decades. There are no other riverfront lots that will be high rise in the core for a while.
TPAMAN
October 14th, 2005, 05:12 PM
Did anyone read about two of the original partners selling their interest in the project? Think this will slow it down?
Jasonhouse
October 14th, 2005, 11:54 PM
No. It's basically u/c.

They probably wanted to cash out to move on to something else, where they could hae a higher stake and stand to make more.
biga1968
October 15th, 2005, 01:31 AM
It is pretty typical...for developers to cash out while the getting is good. Not bad especially when T.T.T. not even broken ground yet.
CBR3
October 17th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Seems that this is going to take a while longer to go vertical. At least until the end of the year.

Partners sell out, builder tapped for Trump condo tower

TAMPA -- Two fewer people are sitting at Donald Trump's boardroom table concerning his proposal for a 52-story condominium tower in downtown Tampa.

Dr. Howard Howell and Patrick Sheppard, two of the original five local partners in the Trump Tower Tampa development announced earlier this year, have sold their interests in the project to remaining partners Jody Simon, Frank Dagostino and Robert E. Lyons for an undisclosed price.

Previously published reports had the costs at $220 million for the planned residential high-rise at the south end of Ashley Drive near the Hillsborough River, though rising costs for building materials could inflate that number.

Meanwhile, the project's owner, developer SimDag LLC, has all but wrapped up a deal with its builder -- and it's not Bovis Lend Lease, which had been vying for the work before the partnership arrangement changed.

Turner Construction Co. confirmed it is working closely with the owners of the project to get a price nailed down, said Scott Skidelsky, VP and GM of Florida for New York-based Turner Construction.

The final price and a signed deal should come by the end of the year, Skidelsky said.

"SimDag is a great owner to work with They really understand the construction industry, and we're looking forward to getting the best pricing available," he said.

Final details are also being worked out on a building permit from the City of Tampa, while at the same time the project is trying to reconcile construction materials costs that have escalated since Trump visited Tampa on Feb. 18 to announce his condo tower plans.

"Once these are done, we'll have a groundbreaking and keep going," said David Hooks, a Clearwater public relations consultant serving as spokesman for Trump Tower Tampa. "We're in good shape. It just takes the time it takes."
Getting the job done

Turner wants to give as much work to Bay area contractors, Skidelsky said, but is willing to look beyond the region to find the best deals.

"We're bringing the most qualified local subcontractors in the industry available," he said. "But we're not against bringing in outside subs from different parts of the Southeast."

It's a challenging cost climate right now, he said.

With published reports that the Federal Emergency Management Agency is taking 20 percent of the available drywall for the rebuilding efforts in the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast, it, along with masonry, will be in short supply, Skidelsky said.

"It's important to make sure you are using firms that can in fact secure and guarantee delivery of those products," he said.

Turner brings national might and a substantial track record, including a twin 11-story condo project it is working on with SimDag in Clearwater and 20 years working in Tampa on projects that included The Florida Aquarium.

Turner is able to limit risk on projects because it finances its own insurance and sub-bonding, as opposed to a builder who goes to each subcontractor and asks for individual bonds.

"We're self-insured and use our $7.8 billion in purchasing power," Skidelsky said.
Longer than first expected

Trump, the New York-based developer and star of NBC's hit show "The Apprentice," announced during a news conference eight months ago that the project would break ground in either late April or early May, with a 2007 completion target. The announcement attracted a groundswell of media coverage, much of which favored Trump, given his billionaire celebrity status.

The local partnership, originally SimDag-RoBEL LLC, identified its architect, real estate agent and mortgage lender at the news conference, but no general contractor. Since that time, the project has encountered other delays and unforeseen circumstances, ranging from the hiring of an archaeological expert to surveying for potential Indian remains to the making a Hillsborough River sea wall strong enough to support the project.

Site preparation continued earlier this week on the 1.5-acre tract next to SimDag's six-story building at 102 W. Whiting St.

A permit for the preparation was issued the same day as Trump's visit to Tampa, Hooks said.

Also during the past few months, some prospective residents of the 190-unit tower were notified that they would be required to pay higher prices to offset the costs of building materials. Pricing at Trump Tower originally ranged from $700,000 to more than $6 million.

Not all of the units will be affected by the price hikes, and those who paid deposits to reserve units were allowed to back out without any penalties, according to Hooks. Potential buyers with backup reservations were contacted to take up those spots, he said.

"Those that did not stay in, and frankly there were not that many, were quickly picked up so it wasn't that big a deal," Hooks said.

ccronan@bizjournals.com | 813.342.2468 amuellner@bizjournals.com | 813.342.2472

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/10/17/story1.html
NewPortRicheyGuy
October 17th, 2005, 09:21 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Jasonhouse
October 17th, 2005, 09:56 PM
Don't worry, Projects are always taking longer than they first say. it's very rare for this kind of project to just fly out of the ground, following the ambitious schedule of marketers.
robbie
October 18th, 2005, 03:10 AM
People on the site today but it looked like they were getting ready to more work on the river. Do you know if the riverwalk needs to be complete before they actulally start building TTT?
CBR3
December 5th, 2005, 04:26 PM
Design architect added to Trump Tower team

IBA Consultants has been selected to provide expertise on the building envelope, glass and waterproofing for the new Trump Tower Tampa.

The $220 million, 52-story tower will have 190 condominium and penthouse residences on the Hillsborough River in downtown Tampa. SimDag LLC is the developer.

IBA will provide the project's architect, Smith Barnes Santiesteban Architecture, with design development, construction document review, shop drawing and submittal review, site inspection and testing services for glass and glazing, waterproofing and roofing.

"With so much on the line for luxury buildings - money, time, reputation - no one wants the building to leak after construction," said Mark Baker, president of IBA, in a release.

That's why more architects are getting involved early in the design process to ensure the integrity of the building envelope is done right the first time, he said.

IBA's Sarasota office will provide the consulting services for the project and be led by Wayne Offerman, vice president and john Mauldin, senior consultant.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/11/28/daily54.html?jst=b_ln_hl
Casey
December 16th, 2005, 12:19 AM
Trump tells Turner, 'You're hired!'
The man behind "The Apprentice" has finally made a decision regarding the general contractor for his new 52-story condominium tower in downtown Tampa.

Turner Construction Co. was named Thursday to build Trump Tower Tampa nearly a year after Donald Trump announced plans to develop the $270-million project on a 1.5-acre site along the Hillsborough River at the south end of Ashley Drive. The Tampa Bay Business Journal reported in October that Turner would win the contract.

Trump, who made the announcement the same day that NBC will telecast this season's "Apprentice" finale, cited Turner's proven track record of building high-rise developments in Florida as the reason for selecting the Dallas-based company.

"Selecting the right general contractor for a Trump project, one that will also be the tallest residential building on the Gulf of Mexico and a signature property in its market, demands the very best talent for this massive responsibility," Trump stated in a media release.

Kevin Glenn, Turner's business development manager in Tampa, said the company plans to hire 92 percent of its subcontractors from the Tampa Bay area. "We understand the magnitude of this project and the impact it will have on the city of Tampa and the downtown area," Glenn said.

Trump and his local development partner, SimDag LLC, plan to begin construction of Trump Tower Tampa once construction of a new sea wall and deep foundation work are completed in the next few months. They estimate that the 190-unit condo tower will be finished by late 2008.

Trump Tower Tampa will feature ultra-luxury condos and penthouse residences ranging from 1,991 to 6,150 square feet, and priced between $700,000 and at least $6.5 million. Trump formally introduced the project during a Feb. 18 press conference and reception at the construction site.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/12/12/daily48.html
smiley
December 16th, 2005, 04:07 AM
As far as I am concerned, if they are doing or have started foundation work - deep or otherwise - that is under construction. And by the way - the new sea wall sure looks more secure than the old one did.
John F
January 31st, 2006, 08:08 PM
Bump because people keep asking about it on other threads.

Jason, is it possible to sticky official construction threads for popular projects?
Jasonhouse
January 31st, 2006, 08:20 PM
^I would rather not... The stickies for the development lists is enough stickying imo.

Too many stickies, and then there's no room for other threads to be viewed.
John F
January 31st, 2006, 08:55 PM
understandable... Though I wish some people would look for a thread on a certain topic before just lumping a post in with a convient thread near the top...
robbie
January 31st, 2006, 10:26 PM
Saw the site today. It was a beautiful day to go for a joyride. No clouds at all, blue skies and balmy temperature. Anyway, there were two workers on site with some kind of machinerey running. There were a couple of pallots on site with bags on them (probably cement mix) so there are still signs of life at TTT. Channelside Drive looking good. I'll go to "Twin Towerside" next.
FloridaFuture
January 31st, 2006, 10:30 PM
Maybe a Tampa/Tampa Bay Area sub forum would be of use in this situation. Most of this foum is Tampa dominated.
NewPortRicheyGuy
February 1st, 2006, 12:12 AM
Agree, Tampa needs a Sub-forum. 75% of the stuff on the Florida forum contains to Tampa.
The Mad Hatter!!
February 1st, 2006, 12:48 AM
i really dont think so...after miami left the florida forum,the florida forum slumped for a bit but thanks to tampa it rose again,if tampa is taken away then there is no need for florida forum,tampa just doesn't have that much of a crowd yet..maybe by next year it might;.
NewPortRicheyGuy
February 1st, 2006, 01:00 AM
You still have Jacksonville and all that
smiley
February 1st, 2006, 03:10 PM
When will Trump Tower rise?
The luxury condo tower and The Donald have missed expectations for a ceremonial start. If delays persist, it might not open in 2008.
By JAMES THORNER, Times Staff Writer
Published February 1, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TAMPA - A year ago this month, billionaire developer Donald Trump swept into downtown Tampa touting a $220-million condo tower that at 52 stories would outstretch any skyscraper in the region.

"You'll be amazed how fast we go from here," Patrick Sheppard, a local partner in what was being billed as Trump Tower Tampa, told the media at the time.

Today, to the casual eye, the 11/2-acre lot at 111 S Ashley Drive looks no more likely to sprout a luxury high-rise than it was a year ago. It's cleared, flattened, shrouded in construction fencing. Promises for a formal groundbreaking have been shoved back since early fall, along with the projected completion date, while the skyscraper's cost and price per condo have jumped. Some buyers, while captivated by the Trump mystique, hanker for explanations as delay succeeds delay.

"They haven't really said why it hasn't broken ground, and we don't know either," said Alex Petro, a St. Petersburg chiropractor who has bought a $1.9-million, 12th-floor Trump penthouse.

Contractors pledge to begin laying steel pilings for the tower's foundation within two or three weeks. Then comes 33 months of vertical construction as Trump Tower rises to heights unmatched in West Florida.

"Things are still going very much forward," said Kevin Glenn of Turner Construction Co., the project's general contractor.

If developers are to make the proposed late 2008 grand opening, they can't afford many more postponements. If the project doesn't begin before April, it may not be finished until 2009.

The condominium's charter cites a 2008 completion, but it's unclear what effect a postponed opening would have on developers' obligations to buyers.

Slowing progress has been the largely invisible job of sinking drills underground to find stable bedrock for the pilings, Glenn said, though the sea wall on the Hillsborough is complete.

Delays in delivering The Donald for a symbolic but media-grabbing groundbreaking ceremony have added to the complications.

The New York mogul has been unable to fit the event into his schedule. If it isn't a big dig in another city that needs attention, it's personal stuff like the wedding of Trump's son, Donald Jr.

"We may not have a press event," Jill Cremer, vice president of development for the Trump organization in New York, said Tuesday. "Everyone's schedule is so tight."

From the outset, Tampa business and government leaders have held up the Trump project as a barometer for the redevelopment of the city center.

The tower isn't the first or even the biggest condo complex proposed. But Trump's national reputation means instant clout for a city conscious of living in Miami's shadow.

Located where the Hillsborough River meets the brackish channels leading to the Gulf of Mexico, the Trump site is a pivot point between business-heavy downtown and the up-and-coming Channelside entertainment and residential district.

Marvin Rose, who publishes a newsletter for residential developers, has been glum about a growing glut of condos in the Tampa Bay market.

But Trump's project, whose high-end buyers aren't as hurt by higher interest rates, looks more promising, Rose said.

"Just the Trump name alone was just a brilliant marketing move," Rose said. "It really separated them from the crowd."

Less smitten is Warren Weathers, Hillsborough County's deputy property appraiser. He sees investors driving most condo sales.

Until buyers emerge who want to live in the apartments, Weathers remains a skeptic.

"You've got to have an end user, not just speculation and hype," Weathers said.

Financially, Trump Tower looks to be a winner, even though the rising cost of labor and materials has jacked up its cost from about $220-million to $260-million.

Roughly three-quarters of the 190 units have sold, developers said. Buyers plunked down nonrefundable deposits representing 20 percent of purchase prices ranging from $1-million to $6.2-million.

Those sales pale in comparison to the near-sellout numbers announced during last year's reservation phase. But developers insist they're holding back units so they don't sell too cheaply.

The business team behind Trump Tower changed the past year. Of the five initial local investors, known collectively as SimDag/RoBel LLC, three remain.

Sheppard and Dr. Howard Howell, the "RoBel" part of the partnership, sold their stake to SimDag last fall.

"We never had any intention of getting out of the project," Sheppard said.

"SimDag wanted to manage and take control of the project and made us a very generous and fair offer, and we were agreeable to that."

Petro, the penthouse buyer, is watching and waiting, along with dozens of other buyers.

Some plan to live at what could be one of the region's most opulent addresses. Others, like Petro, are investors hoping Trump's brand generates big property appreciation.

"Will they finish? They'd better finish," Petro said. "They have a ton of money of ours."

James Thorner can be reached at 813 226-3313 or thorner@sptimes.com

[Last modified February 1, 2006, 07:31:16]http://www.sptimes.com/2006/02/01/Business/When_will_Trump_Tower.shtml
Dale
February 1st, 2006, 05:41 PM
Maybe Trump should get pointers from Cantor, just across the bay, who has a much better-looking tower going up, on time.
TampaTower
February 2nd, 2006, 02:06 AM
Any guess to when they will officially start construction to go vert.

It would be nice to see the project complete by the 2009 superbowl.
John F
February 2nd, 2006, 03:22 AM
comparing to what Skypoint just did - it took about 3 months to get the pilings and caps done (from June till August/September) and went verticle from there. Depending on how much the construction varies - I'd guess they'd start verticle work (33 months of it, from what hte article said) in summer... If gorundbreaking is by March...
Afguy1985
February 2nd, 2006, 03:31 AM
Has anyone seen the Condo high-rise (Spire In Atlanta) is this going to be pretty much the same concept at Skypoint in Tampa?
Jasonhouse
February 2nd, 2006, 05:55 AM
^You should really discuss Skypoint in the thread where Skypoint is being discussed (in its own dedicated thread).
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=216916

This thread is specifically dedicated to Trump Tower Tampa.
robbie
February 2nd, 2006, 10:08 PM
"Invisible" job of sinking drills underground to find stable bedrock??? I'm no expert on this. Could somebody explain.

When I first saw the title of the article I thought it would be another negative by the Times, but in this case it was very informational so this article answers the questions of "What's holding up TTT" and the people at the Times seem to know how and whom to get the info. from.
Jasonhouse
February 3rd, 2006, 04:25 AM
^They sink an auger bit (3"-6" dia) into the ground until they hit bedrock, and then they keep drilling a little, to make sure that it's really the true bedrock, and not some porous shit that will subside under load. They do this wherever there will be a caisson, to ensure that what's going to ultimately bear the load of the building is "rock solid". If they hit a particularly bad spot, sometimes they even have to rework the foundation system a bit...

From what I understand from an aquaintance of mine who is a structural engineer, this has become a major issue to everyone lately, because of issues on the Selmon project and the Embassy Suites project DT (one of the caissons had to be ripped out and redone like 11ft deeper, because it was on a porous bed, and had sunk from just its own wieght)...In both cases, test bores located "bedrock" at a certain depth and the foundation structure was set, only later to have those structures fail.
smiley
February 3rd, 2006, 04:37 AM
Indeed - they also have some of the conical caisson mesh laying around on the site. They are getting there. Just relax.
robbie
February 3rd, 2006, 11:36 PM
Just glad to get the real news about TTT. Also, there's an article in the Trib. today. They want to keep testing the soil until they are 100% sure it's ready.
SDK4
February 4th, 2006, 05:06 AM
Heres the article:

Builder: Trump Tower On Track
By SHANNON BEHNKEN sbehnken@tampatrib.com

Published: Feb 3, 2006

http://www.tbo.com/news/money/MGBM4WCU7JE.html

TAMPA - A year after Trump Tower Tampa was announced, its developers acknowledge project costs have gone up 50 percent and they've passed along a $40 million increase to buyers with reservations.

Even so, they say, 80 percent of the 192 units are spoken for, meaning the majority of those buyers have contracts and have put down 20 percent nonrefundable deposits to live in the 600-foot tall building. The city also says initial permits to start vertical construction should be approved in a few weeks.

Getting to this point has been a roller coaster ride for developers, potential buyers and contractors during the past 12 months. Some buyers backed out, construction deadlines lapsed and the project has been the focus of rumors that the tower is in trouble. Developers said Thursday that even though they had to take a $35 million cut in profit, the tower is on track and will be better than dozens of other condos planned for downtown.

"We did have people fall out because of prices," said Frank Dagostino, chief executive officer of SimDag LLC, the Tampa-based developers of the project. "But those people were replaced within hours. We're not going away. We're absolutely going to build this building."

Developers plan to begin driving pilings within two weeks, Dagostino said. That will take four months, followed by another 28 months of vertical construction on the $225 million building.

The higher costs and tedious soil testing - to ascertain the ground can support the 52-story skyscraper - has pushed the estimated completion date back until at least December 2008. That is a year after the original completion date.

The on-again, off-again appearance of work at the site, along the Hillsborough River at Ashley Drive and Brorein Street, has fueled rumors that the tower won't be built. Some other condominium projects have had trouble filling vacancies after raising sales prices, but the prestige of Donald Trump's name seems to be driving its success.

"The Trump name is associated with the best possible quality in everything from the carpet and glass to the construction," said Patrick Berman, a commercial real estate broker with Cushman & Wakefield in Tampa. "And 80 percent means break even. Your risk is zero. What this means to me is that this project will move forward."

Dagostino said that's why his group sought out Trump: They knew the power the Trump name would have. "That's why we're not in the trouble of some of the other condos in the area."

When the project was announced this time last year, it was reserved almost immediately. Potential buyers put down a 10 percent refundable deposit to hold a unit. The original prices ranged from $700,000 to $6 million. Last fall, many of those buyers were informed they had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars more to keep their condos.

For several months, developers have converted reservations to "hard contract," meaning buyers fork over another deposit, for a total of 20 percent. Buyers who back out now won't get a refund.

One buyer, Clearwater developer Stephen Page, didn't hesitate to pay more for the 2-bedroom condo he wants on the 34th floor. He said he'll pay just under $1 million.

Page, who has built small condo projects along Pinellas County beaches, said he knows what rising construction costs can do to overall building prices. Still, he said, if it were another condominium developer, he'd be more leery of the increased sales price. However, for the Trump name, he said, he's willing to pay.

"I feel that no matter what, that will be the top tower in Tampa and the quality of the his name will ensure the value of the investment," said Page, who plans to use the condo on weekends. "If any condo is going to go in downtown Tampa that will be a safe bet, I feel it will be Trump."

Observers haven't seen much work going on at the Trump site, but Bob Lyons, president of SimDag, said that's because much of the work isn't plainly seen. First, the seawall had to be reinforced to support the massive tower and the city's riverwalk.

Then, Dagostino said, drilling began to test whether the ground can support the pilings. In typical condo projects, he said, three or four pilings are tested this way, but he doesn't want to take chances.

"I don't want to be in the paper 15 years from now about the Trump tower leaning," Dagostino said. "This isn't a 15-story building. We have to make sure we test enough."

The developers say they plan to release 19 units for sale later this month or in early March. Those units will cost between $1 million and $1.7 million, Dagostino said.

To make up for the construction cost increases, he said, another 19 units will be sold at completion when they can charge more.
I-275westcoastfl
February 4th, 2006, 05:12 AM
Good to see they are finally going to start the building i mean face it is gonna be the centerpiece tower in tampa unless Tampa Towers is built or somebody randomly announces a 72 story tower here.
Dale
February 4th, 2006, 05:17 AM
I guess my question is why have the initial permits not been obtained ? Is this a Trump problem or a Tampa problem ?
Jasonhouse
February 4th, 2006, 06:50 AM
Good to see they are finally going to start the building i mean face it is gonna be the centerpiece tower in tampa unless Tampa Towers is built or somebody randomly announces a 72 story tower here.

You mean 62 story tower....;)
SDK4
February 5th, 2006, 06:11 AM
Trump will get this project going soon. I don't think he wants anymore bad publicity after his painful financial reorganization a few years ago.
envane
February 5th, 2006, 06:05 PM
Trump was never the genius he portrayed himself to be and the tower will be DOA if he bothers to finish building it.
Dale
February 5th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Trump was never the genius he portrayed himself to be and the tower will be DOA if he bothers to finish building it.

Huh ?
Hannibal
February 5th, 2006, 08:54 PM
He's extremely wealthy and I'm not. I'll just leave it at that... :doh:
smiley
February 5th, 2006, 10:57 PM
Kind of hard to get a foundation permit until you know where you are putting the foundation elements and what it consists of. . . I would not worry too much.
envane
February 5th, 2006, 11:43 PM
Huh ?

The housing bubble will have completely popped by the time the Tower is finished, he won't be able to sell the unsold units, the flippers who reserved units will run like hell from it.
Jasonhouse
February 6th, 2006, 02:20 AM
^Flippers who run like hell will help to cover SimDag's ass anyways, as they will lose the 20% in deposits they have put down.
smiley
February 6th, 2006, 04:45 AM
Envane, you do not seem to quite understand the dynamics of the upper end market in Florida. The bubble will kill the middle, not the top. There may be slight deflation, but not that much.
envane
February 6th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Envane, you do not seem to quite understand the dynamics of the upper end market in Florida. The bubble will kill the middle, not the top. There may be slight deflation, but not that much.

Irrelevant. You can overbuild the upper end like the rest of the market. How many rich people want to and can afford to live in the Trump Tower? The project has attracted mostly speculators. Reread the St Pete Times article upthread.
Afguy1985
February 7th, 2006, 07:19 AM
I do not believe the downtown condo market in Tampa will be hit hard. The area is prime for growth and people keep flocking to Florida. However, I don't see great appreciation in the next few years. What does everyone else think this year will bring to? ...and if we are expecting a bust then why do developers keep proposing more and more Condos???
youngkg
February 7th, 2006, 05:39 PM
Florida has and will continue to have very high demand. If you look at the projected census data (http://www.census.gov/population/projections/PressTab1.xls), Florida is expected to almost double in population (15 million residents to 28 million residents) by 2030. Compared to other metropolitian areas, Tampa still remains relatively inexpensive. I think these corporations know what they are doing by building more highrise condos...
Dale
February 7th, 2006, 05:51 PM
I agree with you, youngkg.

Don't be apocalyptic. Be optimistic !
robbie
February 7th, 2006, 06:31 PM
I really don't think rich people that actually want to live in these condo's care about the fluctuations in the housing market. I don't have all the statistics but I'm sure the housing market in the DT, Channelside and other trendy areas is not in the same category with all the other "suburban" and multi-family development.
renner01
February 14th, 2006, 12:27 AM
Has anyone been by the site lately? I heard from a contractor bidding on the job that the general contractor has changed from bovis to turner back to bovis and now there is trailor at the site....I also heard (just rumor) that the developer is short 48 million .
smiley
February 14th, 2006, 12:42 AM
There is a big "TURNER" sign on the fence and people doing soil testing or boring. Turner was the only announced GC in my recollection

You guys need to worry more about the building where nothing ever happened at the site. . . There are enough projects that will fail . . .
Quegiebo
February 14th, 2006, 05:54 AM
I'm still waiting on a response as to whether or not they'll have a videocam -- not a word from them as of yet.

I have absolutely no faith in this group at this point in time.
robbie
February 14th, 2006, 09:51 PM
We just want proof that it's real. We are sick of all the baby steps. They have been testing for almost a year now. I know the bigger the building, the longer it takes but this is ridiculous. It's going to be interesting to see the crane operator work all sqeezed in next to the river. Seems like there won't be much space to work with.
zerobullchip
February 16th, 2006, 03:24 AM
I have a good view of this project from the opposite side of the river. I'm thinking of doing a progressive photo shoot of it.
renner01
February 16th, 2006, 06:25 PM
well do it
Quegiebo
February 16th, 2006, 08:20 PM
I have a good view of this project from the opposite side of the river. I'm thinking of doing a progressive photo shoot of it.

That would be awesome! :)
zerobullchip
February 16th, 2006, 11:56 PM
well do it
Well, when they starrt pushing dirt, I will!
Miami as in Perfect
February 17th, 2006, 12:57 AM
lol; hostility. heh. i would take pictures, too; but i doubt if the view from pembroke pines (miami/ft. lauderdale) would be so great.
John F
February 17th, 2006, 01:38 AM
^^ But you gotta admit, those would be some REALLY F'n original photographs of the project! :D
LuvHighrisers
February 18th, 2006, 03:51 PM
Is real construction on TTT actually going to begin this week or not? A couple weeks ago an article in the Trib said that construction was set to begin in 2 weeks.
gstolze
February 19th, 2006, 06:10 PM
There are some aerial pics of the site and the preparation work on the SimDag web page.

http://simdag.com/flash/trumptowertampa.shtml

click on details and then photos and scroll down.
thehappysmith
February 27th, 2006, 01:11 AM
There's a crane on the site for the first time in months, though it's in pieces awaiting assembly. Not very big, will be used I assume in some way for footers. Could be an auger, I suppose; tough to tell from the pieces though there was no auger bit in evidence. Infill dirt still needed behind the southern end of the seawall. They still have a little ways to go, but it's moving along.
SDK4
February 27th, 2006, 05:00 AM
At least we know Trump still knows he's supposed to be building a skyscraper in Tampa. :)
Jasonhouse
February 28th, 2006, 07:30 AM
The official groundbreaking is Thursday...
smiley
February 28th, 2006, 04:43 PM
His absence will tower over event
Donald Trump won't be on hand Thursday when the 52-story Trump Tower Tampa breaks ground.
By JAMES THORNER, Times Staff Writer
Published February 28, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The architect will be there. So will the Realtor, the mayor, the contractor and the local money men.

But when Trump Tower Tampa ceremonially breaks ground on Thursday, a certain brash-talking New Yorker will be conspicuous by his absence: Donald Trump himself.

A year after he swooped into town to kick off sales of the quarter-billion-dollar condo tower, Trump won't attend the birth of his 52-story namesake. "Mr. Trump cannot attend but he will be represented," project spokesman David Hooks said without elaboration.

A slate of dignitaries, including Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio, will gather at S Ashley Drive and Brorein Street along the Hillsborough River for the 2 p.m. ceremony.

West Florida's tallest skyscraper has remained mostly a rumor the past year as developers sold most of the tower's 192 units but construction never got off the ground.

The local developers, SimDag LLC, have promised to start laying the building's foundation toward a completion in 33 months.

The name of one key player remains as elusive as The Donald: Who will lend Trump Tower money to finance construction?

Hooks promised that "news about the financing arrangement is forthcoming."

- James Thorner can be reached at thorner@sptimes.com or 813 226-3313.

[Last modified February 28, 2006, 09:46:02]
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/02/28/Business/His_absence_will_towe.shtml
Dave01walk
March 2nd, 2006, 11:33 AM
Here's a little more on today's event.....

TAMPA - The Donald and his famous coif won't be at today's groundbreaking for the city's newest luxury condo tower.

His name, however, will be all over the $225 million riverfront project: Trump Tower Tampa. As the 52-story skyscraper rises on the city's skyline, Donald Trump's "brand" and all it stands for will be stamped on Tampa's economic image.

The New York real estate mogul is best known for luxury high rises, casinos and resorts named after himself. Since his emergence as a reality TV icon on "The Apprentice," though, Trump also has endorsed using his name on board games, men's cologne and even bottled water.

The spillover of that image could affect Tampa in ways bad and good. Some think that if promoted right, Trump Tower Tampa can help transform Tampa's downtown into a place where the rich and famous would want to live.

"It puts Tampa a little above the pack," Ron Kuntze, a University of Tampa assistant marketing professor said of the 52-story downtown project he sees as a boost for the city. "It's kind of like the Good Housekeeping seal of approval for real estate and upscale living."

Despite high-profile financial struggles and bankruptcy, Trump's name and his projects still create immediate assumptions of business success and wealth, Kuntze said.

"I think he's positioned himself as the ultimate business icon," he said.

His name likely had an impact on how many people signed up for Trump Tower Tampa condos initially priced between $700,000 and $6 million, Kuntze and other brand experts said. A reported 80 percent of the units have had a 20 percent nonrefundable deposit placed on them, despite an estimated 50 percent jump in building costs.

Some of those owners and developers from Tampa's SimDag LLC will be at today's groundbreaking, Trump Tower Tampa spokesman David Hooks said. Trump - whose percentage of investment in the Tampa project is unknown - won't attend as he and his wife await the birth of their baby, Hooks said.

Trump's real estate properties most often are located in resort towns or much larger cities: New York, Chicago, Atlantic City, Las Vegas, Seoul, Korea. Tampa and Toronto are among the first lesser-known cities to be the site of a Trump nonresort project. The Tampa tower isn't expected to be completed until at least December 2008.

Trump has spent decades making his fortune on high-quality real estate such as the Tampa project, said Paul Parkin, partner and founder of SALT, a San Francisco-based branding and communications firm. So far, his off-the-wall endorsement ventures haven't compromised Trump properties, he said.

"As long as they continue to build towers with the same standards, there's no risk," he said.

Spreading The Brand
Trump himself admits to being a shameless promoter of products he supports. His Web site - www.trumponline.com- highlights Trump properties and resorts, as well as a slew of merchandise. There's Trump signature power suits, Trump the fragrance, Trump the board game, Trump Ice bottled water, and even Trump University, an online business school that includes a course on building a brand name.

"If I were to put 'Trump' on everything that came my way - from potato chips to paper clips - the power of my name would be diluted," Trump wrote last week in The Trump Blog, a commentary at trumpuniversity.com. "I'm very demanding and selective about where that name goes. And I always try to make sure the letters are in gold."

Parkin said the value of a brand can be diminished if used too much. He points to Richard Branson's Virgin brand in the United Kingdom, where the one-time record label now hawks airlines, cell phones, banks, soda pop and even bridal services as a way to risk weakening the brand. Trump can go too far and hurt his real estate ventures as a result, he said.

"If he's not careful, he's running the risk of actually undermining the thing that made him," Parkin said. "Trump Tampa may make sense, but what about Trump Boise? How far does it go?"

How the public perceives Trump the brand is different than it was before "The Apprentice" appeared as a prime-time reality series several years ago, Parkin said. It used to be that Donald Trump the man was defined by the image and success of his buildings and companies. "These have been completely overshadowed by the image of the man," Parkin said. "Now, you evaluate the properties by the identity of a person."

A December survey tracking the popularity of certain brands found that Trump was on a roller coaster of success. The 2005 ImagePower Newsmaker Brands Survey found that television viewers were cooling to confrontational reality shows such as "The Apprentice" and that Trump's name as a celebrity was deemed a loser along with others such as Britney Spears and Howard Stern.

But Trump, like Spears and Stern, continued to profit from their brand-associated merchandise, said the national survey conducted by branding specialists Landor Associates and Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates.

Parkin said Trump likely will have a sense of humor about his brand, until it hurts his bottom line.

"When he stops making money where he makes the bulk of his money, he will start caring," Parkin said.

Impact Has Varying Effect
It remains to be seen if Trump's name can boost the image of Tampa - a city with more than 300,000 residents, and an estimated 2.5 million in the metropolitan area.

Larger cities with Trump projects said they doubt they will frantically promote Trump's arrival in their city. Toronto, Canada's largest city with 2.5 million residents, already has a healthy residential presence in its downtown on the shores of Lake Ontario, said Stuart Green, the city's deputy communications director.

The 70-story condo Trump International Hotel and Tower, which has yet to break ground, is welcome but not essential to be a catalyst for Toronto's residential and financial health, he said.

"Is it just another condo? No," Green said. "But at the same time, it's not going to make the city a much better place. It's already a great city."

Trump also is not turning heads in Chicago, where the 90-story Trump International Hotel and Tower is expected to open in 2008. Carolyn Kae Phillips, spokeswoman for the city's economic development arm, World Business Chicago, said Trump's new tower won't significantly change the city's economic image.

"We can't imagine it would have any impact on the city of Chicago," said Phillips, the department's director of Strategic Initiatives. "We've got plenty of great brands in the city already."

Donald Trump's name graces a slew of products, from bottled water to cologne. He first made his name, however, on a number of real estate ventures that bear his surname. They include:

New York

Trump Tower

Trump Park Avenue

Trump World Tower

Trump International Hotel and Tower

Trump Place

The Residences at Trump National

Trump Parc and Trump Parc East

Trump Palace

Trump Tower at Westchester

Los Angeles

The Estates at Trump National

Chicago

Trump International Hotel and Tower

Florida

Trump Tower Tampa

Trump Grande Ocean Resort at North Miami Beach

Las Vegas

Trump International Hotel and Tower

Canouan Islands, The Grenadines

Trump Island Villas

Seoul, Korea

Trump World

Toronto

Trump International Hotel and Tower

Other non-brand properties involving the Trump Organization

610 Park Avenue, New York

40 Wall Street, New York

Mar a Lago at Palm Beach

Source: The Trump Organization - www.trumponline.com

http://www.tbo.com/news/money/MGBOY6JGAKE.html
SDK4
March 2nd, 2006, 08:52 PM
I can't believe Trump won't be there today. It shows you how much he really cares about this project.
Jasonhouse
March 2nd, 2006, 08:59 PM
This isn't Trump's deal anyways. He's pretty much always just been the name brand the developers bought to separate their product from all of the others.
smiley
March 2nd, 2006, 11:14 PM
Who cares if he shows, as long as it is built properly
SDK4
March 3rd, 2006, 03:35 AM
This isn't Trump's deal anyways. He's pretty much always just been the name brand the developers bought to separate their product from all of the others.

I know, but it would have created alot of buzz around the building and its construction if he had shown.
smiley
March 3rd, 2006, 04:16 AM
When it goes up out of the ground (in 6 months from now)- it will have buzz.
robbie
March 6th, 2006, 02:44 AM
Check out article in Times from March 3. It mentions that there will be 163 caissons to claw the bedrock 100 feet underground. Pretty interesting....and it will take supposedly the next five and a half months but of course with Tampa's notorious rainy weather and hurricane season approaching, it may take longer. I just got a little bit educated about casissons. It's going to be interesting to sink that many on a small site.
thehappysmith
March 6th, 2006, 05:00 AM
^That site's going to be solid caisson.
robbie
March 6th, 2006, 07:33 PM
So with all the caisson work going on we won't see anything coming out of the ground until the fall and vertical construction will be heavy next year. I hope Donald has at least one more plan for Tampa (maybe a 50 story loft building). He should have something in St. Pete as well. (TTT St. Pete). Just wishing.
robbie
March 17th, 2006, 11:45 PM
Hey Mr. Zerobluechip,

Anything going on at TTT this week? Any caissons laying around yet?
Jasonhouse
March 18th, 2006, 12:25 AM
^All week long... I altered my route home (took Channelside, not Twiggs) on Wednesday, to check it out.

Pretty much everything is humming along... Towers at Channelside is going up much quicker than I expected. Must be a good GC.
robbie
March 19th, 2006, 01:53 AM
Saw it for myself today. They have it so you can see through it again. The land looked a little different. Yes the towers are moving along. Looks like the east parking may be topped out and they are starting on the east residential tower. Maybe the middle link may go last.
robbie
March 22nd, 2006, 10:53 PM
I guess Mr. Bluechip is too busy to give updates. That's OK. Anyway, today there were several workers on site doing some serious work. I was waiting at the light to turn on Brorein and it took long because the bridge was up. While waiting, a crane was dropping a tall concrete cylinder in the ground. Went to Publix to go pee and when I came back it was in the ground.
biga1968
March 24th, 2006, 12:49 AM
It going a while before this building get off the ground. 3 or 4 months maybe.
zerobullchip
March 24th, 2006, 02:43 AM
Sorry I've been too busy to do anything lately. As it turns out I may not be around this job with a view for too much longer, so my plan to shoot these photos may not pan out. There are rumors that something similar may be available from the same view on website in the next few months. I'll keep you posted.
smiley
March 24th, 2006, 10:48 PM
As I said in the Channelside thread - I was up in one of the offices today and got to look around - this building if going all out. I am sure it will take a while, but they are cranking away. NO idea about that mysterious "financing" that the Times kept harping on - hoping it would fall through, no doubt - but someone is paying for the work
TamHavPolis
April 4th, 2006, 04:33 PM
I don't know if any of you have seen the story, and I'm too lazy to post the link, but the Tampa Tribune is reporting that SimDag has dropped Turner Construction as the contractor for the Trump Tower.

What on earth is going on? Is this building going to be built?
Dave01walk
April 4th, 2006, 04:49 PM
TAMPA - Trump Tower Tampa is getting a new contractor.

The development team behind downtown's most talked-about condominium project confirmed Monday it has dropped Turner Construction Co. as its general contractor and is in negotiation with four other candidates for the job.

David Hooks, a spokesman for Trump Tower Tampa, said the change in contractors won't delay construction on the 52-story, 192-unit luxury condominium tower.

He said work under way at the Ashley Drive construction site - installing the 163 caissons that will support the building - is not being done by Turner. That work will continue until mid-August. The first condominiums are expected to be ready for tenants in August 2008.

The $225 million condominium is being developed by Donald Trump, the real estate maven and reality TV star, in partnership with SimDag LLC, a Tampa-based development firm specializing in luxury waterfront condominiums.

The partnership announced in December that it had hired Turner Construction Co. of New York, one of the nation's largest construction companies, as general contractor.

"Turner is a proven company, one of the nation's leading general contractors and the most experienced builder of high-rise developments in Florida," Trump said in a Dec. 15 news release. "They will do a great job."

Turner spokeswoman Karen Pruente confirmed Monday that her company is no longer the general contractor. Hooks said a confidentiality agreement prohibits members of the Trump-SimDag team from discussing their decision to release Turner.

http://www.tampatrib.com/MGBFAPOJLLE.html
renner01
April 4th, 2006, 10:23 PM
I had mentioned i believe once on this thread that I had been told by a potential contractor that the developer sim-dag was having a time of it getting the finance in place. we shall see....
TallTampa
April 4th, 2006, 10:35 PM
No Donald at the groundbreaking, contractor dismissed from project, groundbreaking delayed almost a year....something doesn't smell right.
Jasonhouse
April 4th, 2006, 11:46 PM
I can't conceive of construction halting after starting... Talk about rinky-dink!
robbie
April 5th, 2006, 12:12 AM
He can't be everywhere at once. He just had the baby and he's got projects going on all over the world. Drive by the site sometime and you can see and hear the work. I can't imagine they do all the caisson work and then halt.
TallTampa
April 5th, 2006, 01:26 AM
You're probably right, it just seems odd.
jvance75
April 5th, 2006, 05:43 AM
Trump Tower already faces hurdles
The luxury condo high-rise is having to replace its general contractor and faces another hurdle: finding a financier to lend it $200-million.
By JAMES THORNER, Times Staff Writer
Published April 4, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TAMPA - One month after its ceremonial groundbreaking and 21/2 years shy of completion, Trump Tower Tampa has broken with its builder, a company it praised last year as one of the best in the business.

Turner Construction Co., the New York contractor pegged in December to build the $260-million luxury condominium high-rise, backed out of the deal March 17, Turner spokeswoman Shannon Eckhart said.

"I don't have details," Eckhart said.

Since construction officially started March 2, subcontractors have been laying underground foundations for the 52-story, 600-foot skyscraper at Ashley Drive and Brorein Street.

Tower developer SimDag LLC vows to hire a general contractor to replace Turner in the next month. A grand opening is scheduled for late 2008.

"The developer is in negotiation with four highly qualified companies to assume the role of general contractor well in advance of any impact on the construction timetable," project spokesman David Hooks said in a written statement.

But Trump Tower might have a higher hurdle: It has yet to announce a financier to lend it $200-million.

SimDag's principals, including Frank Dagostino and Jody Simon, have had to dig into their pockets for startup money.

The tower would house 192 condominiums priced from about $700,000 to $6.2-million.

Trump is lending his brand to the building in exchange for a cut of the profits, a formula he perfected on condo projects in places such as North Miami Beach.

Skeptics wondered for months whether Turner was hedging its bets on the skyscraper. The company never displayed Trump Tower on its Web site, a gallery that included such comparatively smaller deals such as the Clearwater library.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/04/04/Business/Trump_Tower_already_f.shtml
Dale
April 5th, 2006, 06:18 AM
I have mixed feelings about this. It would be a shame if Tampa didn't get a new tallest out of this boom. On the other hand, the design is a real dozer.
smiley
April 5th, 2006, 05:58 PM
I still maintain that it will get built.
jvance75
April 5th, 2006, 08:38 PM
the lending issue should be worked out very soon...
Gdad
April 20th, 2006, 10:00 PM
Has anyone else noticed the caisson operation has been stopped for about a week now? It went on for a while after Turner left- but not now. It would be nice to know who the new GC is going to be.
tampamobster21
April 20th, 2006, 10:03 PM
They are waiting to see if they can get the 200 million that they need. Honestly, I think that Trump has the money to finance the project himself and not even hit the depth of his pockets.
Maxim98
April 20th, 2006, 10:25 PM
I still maintain that it will get built.

Oh, I think so too. It's just taking forever...

Sure, most projects do (four years from proposal to opening isn't really that long).

I'm just an impatient skyrise whore.
tampamobster21
April 20th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Same here I love cities. I can not wait until everything will be built.
TamHavPolis
April 21st, 2006, 11:11 AM
As far as I understand, Trump doesn't actually own an interest in the building of Trump Tower Tampa. He has essentially franchised out his brand name to a group of local real estate developers - just like McDonald's doesn't really own a number of the stores with their name on them, even though they have a right to make sure that those restaurants meet minimum standards.
tampamobster21
April 22nd, 2006, 11:15 AM
Well then why doesn't he have his name on the top of the building.
FloridaFuture
April 22nd, 2006, 01:46 PM
Well then why doesn't he have his name on the top of the building.

Because not every bulding he builds has to phisically have his name on the building......and not every building has words on the top.
Jasonhouse
April 22nd, 2006, 05:23 PM
Hey, if anyone wants to be the project superintendent for this building, here is your chance... They're hiring. :D

Careerbuilder.com (http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPATH=JEHRA&siteid=cb_emailrec&sc_cmp2=10_JobMat_JobDet&je=myrec&Job_DID=J8A5T862H6T27JCPL5T&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=cd42cae3e4bf4c859532124c1fed762f-199020036-RC-1)
tampamobster21
April 22nd, 2006, 10:03 PM
I think it would look cool if Trump had his name on the Tampa skyline.
Jasonhouse
April 22nd, 2006, 10:44 PM
On the otherhand, I would find that very tacky and in poor taste.
tampamobster21
April 22nd, 2006, 11:14 PM
Well it is his name on the bill for the building. I think on the otherhand he should have put money towards the project. Or did he?
TamHavPolis
April 22nd, 2006, 11:19 PM
When has Donald Trump done something that wasn't tasteless and/or tacky? I mean, have you been to the original Trump Tower on Manhattan?
Dale
April 23rd, 2006, 02:36 AM
His Chicago, Toronto, Philly, Jersey City, Sunny Isles Beach and Hollywood Beach projects range from gorgeous to classy to tasteful.
FloridaFuture
April 23rd, 2006, 02:41 AM
His Chicago, Toronto, Philly, Jersey City, Sunny Isles Beach and Hollywood Beach projects range from gorgeous to classy to tasteful.

His Chicago building is sweet, and his Toronto one too. If only he would build those here and make them 700-750 feet.
robbie
April 23rd, 2006, 06:30 PM
Another Trump building here would be awesome and I don't care that it would be for the rich. It would really help the skyline's appearance.
tampamobster21
April 24th, 2006, 10:46 AM
I think that would be cool as well, but to out do what ever is here already. I wish all developers would try to out do eachother, within reason of course.
FloridaFuture
April 24th, 2006, 01:07 PM
I think that would be cool as well, but to out do what ever is here already. I wish all developers would try to out do eachother, within reason of course.

Well it would depend on the tower and its characteristics if it was cool.
The Mad Hatter!!
April 24th, 2006, 11:00 PM
So what you're saying is that you want tampa to turn out like dubai, i really dont think you want that.
John F
April 25th, 2006, 12:43 AM
Great analogy, Mad...

I HATE how they've developed Dubai. The layout alone (just look at some of the projects and the entire footprint involved0 is stuff to make me throw up in the mouth a little.
thehappysmith
April 25th, 2006, 03:08 AM
Yeah, when I think of developers trying to outdo each other, I would rather imagine New York in the 20s and 30s. Awesome stuff came out of that period when every millionaire wanted to make his building the talk of the town. Wouldn't it be nice to see a competition that produced Tampa's own unique (smaller) versions of masterpieces like Singer, Woolworth, and Chrysler?
Ah, I guess architecture was different in those days, though. You didn't have to make a building look like a sail or a bunch of upside-down fishing boats. You could make it look like a building.
tampamobster21
April 25th, 2006, 06:22 AM
I do not want another Dubai. I hate Dubai and everything about it.
97Roll
May 5th, 2006, 06:45 PM
Anyone know the latest on this project?
Gdad
May 5th, 2006, 07:44 PM
I see they are puting together a much larger caisson machine now- I had heard they found some issues underground they had to deal with. Florida soil is like swiss cheese.

Anyone heard anything on who the new general contractor is?
tampamobster21
May 6th, 2006, 07:07 AM
I just wish that they would hurry up and get vertical.
FloridaFuture
May 6th, 2006, 12:50 PM
I just wish that they would hurry up and get vertical.

Pretty much everyone does.....
Tampa on the move.
May 12th, 2006, 01:35 AM
Amen to that, I want to see that 52-55 story building going up soon..

They better hurry because it will take 2 years to build it, and Superbowl will be here :: e Jan 2009..

Come on Trump... :bash: :bash:

Start hammering away..
tampamobster21
May 13th, 2006, 09:37 AM
lol I hope they just get a developer and the funding.
robbie
May 13th, 2006, 10:12 PM
When I drove by the site yesterday there was all kinds of equipment, materials and trucks on the land, just no bodies.
Dave01walk
May 14th, 2006, 06:11 AM
I can't really see this not happening. I mean Trump has his name on the line here for one. Secondly, I can't imagine having to tell all of those people who have put huge deposits down, "oh yea, by the way, we decided were not going to do this due to construction costs. Oh, did we forget to mention that?" I think that would be a huge blow to his org. Somebody let me know if they think differently, but I just don't see it happening. But on the other hand, I'm curious what the "rich people" which I am not one, are thinking. You would think by now they would be raising a stink if they put 10% or what ever it is and it's way behind schedule, and nobody's talking and contractors are being replaced. I know if I put that much down on a signature piece of real estate I would be asking alot of questions.
Tampa on the move.
May 21st, 2006, 05:18 AM
They will get this going soon.. Someone said it was 70% sold out already before construction even begins..
tampamobster21
May 21st, 2006, 08:55 AM
I really hope so. I do not want the Trump project to not get built. Is it possible for them not to do this project now?
TallTampa
May 21st, 2006, 06:16 PM
I was down there on Friday. There's still work being done, but it's going slow right now. I can't imagine this project falling apart, but you never know.
robbie
May 22nd, 2006, 09:05 PM
More work today. I parked at Publix and walked over to the park next to Cap Trust. On Brorein over the river the workers kinda looked at me as if I was a big Freakazoid. I couldn't tell what kind of work was being done but there were about eight to ten workers on the site. There is a big cylinder about five feet in diameter stuck in the ground near the river corner. There are round metal rods about 20 feet long sitting on the site and I have no idea what they are for. I'm assuming they have something to do with the caissons.

If anybody else would like to do this, I would recommend you go with another person so you don't stick out like a sour thumb. The homeless stayed on the other side, under the crosstown. They were not a problem. The park smells like piss. I hope the bums are not pissing on the pavers.
tampamobster21
May 22nd, 2006, 09:13 PM
http://discovertampasfuture.blogspot.com/ this is my site for construction. Let me know if you all want me to take more photos.
robbie
May 22nd, 2006, 09:16 PM
Yes, by all means take as many as possible.
Tampa on the move.
May 22nd, 2006, 09:26 PM
http://discovertampasfuture.blogspot.com/ this is my site for construction. Let me know if you all want me to take more photos.

Tampa Mobsterr you are the one.. Thank you so much for this link. I am coming to Tampa in 3 weeks and just need my fix..

Great pics.. Will you do the same for Trump-Skypoint-Newks-Novare projects and Maas????
John F
May 23rd, 2006, 10:00 PM
Well, if anyone is like me -- they don't get to downtown often... They would also savor pictures of construction sites...

Which brings me to my offering (thanks to a friend who took the shots for me) of the following pics of Trump Tower of Tampa's site construction:

http://www.aquaclaracanines.com/Photo287.jpg

http://www.aquaclaracanines.com/Photo288.jpg

http://www.aquaclaracanines.com/Photo289.jpg

Not the greatest quality but can't look a gift horse in the mouth
tampamobster21
May 23rd, 2006, 10:40 PM
Good shots, John F.
TallTampa
May 24th, 2006, 12:48 AM
well, it looks like things are happening, albeit slowly.
Gdad
May 24th, 2006, 04:43 PM
Nice pictures. When you look at the size of the guy walking next to the steel caisson cages it puts it in perspective how big the foundation on a 50+ story building really is.
Quegiebo
May 24th, 2006, 06:27 PM
Nice work, John! :yes:
SWFigment
May 31st, 2006, 02:44 AM
Any new news on this? I haven't been downtown in a while, so I feel out of the loop. Have they gotten off the ground yet? Do they ever plan to?!?!
John F
May 31st, 2006, 03:13 AM
Those pictures aren't even a week old, you could check the date on posts...

Sorry to snap but people need to read threads before commenting.
Dave01walk
May 31st, 2006, 05:03 AM
SWFigment, they are still doing undergroud work from the last I've seen. This will probably take awhile to support the building.
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2007, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Let's Impeach the President for Lying .....

2007-03-17T21:35:00.001-07:00

McKay "stunned" by report on Bush

2007-03-14T09:13:00.000-07:00

McKay "stunned" by report on Bush
By David Bowermaster
Seattle Times staff reporter

sorry blogger would not upload pic will try later

CHIP SOMODEVILLA / GETTY IMAGES
Fired attorneys, left to right, Carol Lam, former U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of California; David Iglesias, former U.S. Attorney for the District of New Mexico, Daniel Bogden, former U.S. Attorney for the District of Nevada; Paul Carlton, former U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona, H.E. "Bud" Cummins, former U.S. Attorney for the District of Arkansas, and John McKay, former U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Washington, are all sworn in before testifying to the U.S. House Judiciary Committee on Capitol Hill last week.

Former U.S. Attorney John McKay said Monday night he was "stunned" to hear President Bush told Attorney General Alberto Gonzales last October that Bush had received complaints about U.S. attorneys who were not energetically investigating voter-fraud cases.
McKay doesn't know if Republican unhappiness over his handling of the 2004 election cost him his job as U.S. Attorney for Western Washington, but the new revelations contained in a Washington Post story are sure to reignite questions about McKay's dismissal and whether it was connected to Washington state's hotly contested governor's race.
"Had anyone at the Justice Department or the White House ordered me to pursue any matter criminally in the 2004 governor's election, I would have resigned," McKay said. "There was no evidence, and I am not going to drag innocent people in front of a grand jury."
The conversation between Bush and Gonzales, along with e-mails and documents that the White House plans to turn over to Congress today, suggests the firings of McKay and seven other U.S. attorneys last year may have been politically motivated, despite previous Justice Department and White House denials, according to The Washington Post.
It is not clear whether the materials shed new light on McKay's firing.
Nonetheless, Bush's concerns about voter-fraud investigations will surely heighten the spotlight on how McKay monitored the 2004 race -- and how local and federal Republican officials reacted to his inquiry.
McKay insists that top prosecutors in his office and agents from the FBI conducted a "very active" review of allegations of fraud during the election but filed no charges and did not convene a federal grand jury because "we never found any evidence of criminal conduct."
McKay detailed the work of his office in a recent interview. He spoke out because he believed Republican supporters of Dino Rossi, still bitter over his narrow loss to Democrat Christine Gregoire, continue to falsely portray him and his office as indifferent to allegations of electoral fraud.
McKay also wanted to make it clear that he pressed ahead with a preliminary investigation, despite the hesitation of Craig Donsanto, the longtime chief of the Election Crimes branch of the Department of Justice, who ultimately concurred with McKay that no federal crimes had been committed in the election.
"No controversy"

"There should be no controversy at the Department of Justice, or anywhere else in the federal government, about how the 2004 election was reviewed," McKay said.
McKay's work on the 2004 election has become a national issue since he appeared last Tuesday at hearings into the Justice Department's firings of McKay and seven other U.S. attorneys in December. McKay testified that in late-2004 or early-2005 he received a call from Ed Cassidy, then chief of staff for Rep. Doc Hastings, R-Wash., who asked about the status of ongoing investigations of voter fraud.
McKay testified that he immediately cut off the call, telling Cassidy it would be improper for him to discuss the status of any future investigations with Cassidy.
McKay also said that during a meeting last summer with former White House Counsel Harriet Miers and Deputy Counsel William Kelley, to discuss McKay's candidacy to become a federal judge, he was asked to explain why some Washington state Republicans believed he "mishandled" the 2004 governor's race.
McKay described in detail what happened inside his office as controversy mounted over the 2004 balloting.
Two machine counts initially declared Rossi the winner. A third hand recount declared Gregoire the winner, by just 129 votes over Rossi.
GOP sought investigation
Republicans sued in Chelan County Superior Court to have the vote declared invalid because of tabulation errors, improper ballots and alleged fraud.
From the time Republicans filed the case in January until it went to trial in Wenatchee in late May 2005, several prominent Republicans, including former Sen. Slade Gorton and state Republican Party Chairman Chris Vance, publicly called on McKay and the Justice Department to launch a criminal probe.
McKay says he and four attorneys in his office worked closely with the FBI and the Department of Justice to monitor complaints of criminal wrongdoing.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Arlen Storm, who had received special Justice Department training on election crimes before the 2004 race, did the bulk of the day-to-day work. Floyd Short, the chief of the complex crimes unit, closely supervised Storm. Short also spoke regularly with Donsanto and others in Washington, D.C.
First Assistant U.S. Attorney Mark Bartlett and Jeffrey Sullivan, former chief of the criminal division and now McKay's interim replacement as U.S. attorney, also "were directly involved," McKay said.
Bartlett and Sullivan declined to comment because of Justice Department policies that prevent them from discussing a preliminary investigation, "especially one that did not result in a publicly filed court document," said Emily Langlie, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's office.
Short confirmed his involvement and said McKay was himself highly engaged on election issues.
McKay said one of the first actions he took on the 2004 race came in response to a request from one of his harshest critics.
Tom McCabe, executive vice president of the Building Industry Association of Washington (BIAW), contacted McKay's office in late 2004 or early 2005, alleging he had evidence of forged signatures on absentee ballots cast for Gregoire.
After talking to McCabe, McKay said, he called Mark Ferbrache, supervisory special agent at the FBI, and asked him to assign Special Agent Joe Quinn to review McCabe's evidence.
McCabe confirms he received a phone call from Quinn a few days later, and McCabe sent him documents supporting his forgery allegations.
But McCabe remains dissatisfied with Quinn's response.
"[Quinn] seemed distracted, almost bothered that he was talking to me about it," McCabe said. "He never instituted an investigation; no one was ever questioned.
"It started me wondering whether the U.S. Attorney was doing his job," McCabe said.
McCabe subsequently made repeated calls on the White House to fire McKay. McKay said Quinn examined McCabe's materials "and it was not the conclusion of the FBI that they were forgeries."
An FBI spokesman declined to comment.
One of the biggest controversies of the 2004 race was the casting of hundreds of ballots by convicted felons.
McKay asked Sullivan to create a task force of federal, state and county prosecutors to look into how and why the felons voted in violation of state laws.
Ultimately, Sullivan told McKay "there was no disagreement on the task force" that a federal case could not be brought on the felon voters.
Most of the felons who voted in the 2004 election, according to McKay, received ballots in the mail from the state of Washington. Therefore, he said, it would have been extremely difficult to prove in court that they knew it was unlawful for them to vote, but did it anyway.
Prosecutors and FBI agents took notice when Republican attorney Dale Foreman said during his opening statement in the trial in Wenatchee that he had evidence of fraud in King County.
"I was shocked to see him use the words 'ballot-stuffing' because that is a crime," McKay said. "If you say that, you are ethically bound to prove that."
The team closely followed the testimony and evidence introduced at the trial but saw nothing to confirm federal crimes had taken place.
"No stone unturned"
McKay said that at the conclusion of the trial, Sullivan, Short, Ferbrache and others conducted a conference call with Foreman to see if there was any evidence of criminality that had not been introduced at the trial. "We left absolutely no stone unturned," McKay said. "We were assured by [Foreman] that he did not have any evidence."
Short confirmed the call, and its conclusions.
Foreman did not respond to calls seeking comment.
After the conclusion of the trial and the phone call with Foreman, neither the U.S. Attorney's Office nor the FBI received other credible evidence of federal crimes during the 2004 race.
Consequently, McKay said, "I moved on to other things."
David Bowermaster: 206-464-2724 or dbowermaster@seattletimes.com
Copyright © 2007 The Seattle Times Company
E-mail article Print view More local news

PEACE ON EARTH

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070312/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/bush_latin_america

2007-03-12T05:41:00.001-07:00

Bush to push U.S. compassion in Guatemala

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 57 minutes ago

GUATEMALA CITY, Guatemala - Frame-by-frame, the images of
President Bush in Guatemala on Monday will depict sharp contrasts.
ADVERTISEMENT

The leader of the richest nation reaching out to the impoverished. A smiling vegetable farmer benefiting from a free trade deal that Bush had trouble selling to Congress. Bush touring Mayan ruins and speaking out against social injustice suffered by Guatemala's indigenous citizens of Mayan ancestry, who have protested his visit.

Undeterred by protests that have dogged Bush at every stop on his five-nation Latin American trip, Bush, who arrived here Sunday night, will work to convince Guatemalans that the United States is a compassionate nation. It's the same message he delivered earlier at stops in Brazil, Uruguay and Colombia.

"It's very important for the people of South America and Central America to know that the United States cares deeply about the human condition, and that much of our aid is aimed at helping people realize their God-given potential," Bush said Sunday in Bogota, Colombia.

His goodwill tour also serves as a counterweight to Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, who has been doing his own tour of Latin America. On Sunday in Bolivia, Chavez called for a socialist counterattack against the American "empire." Chavez has been pumping his nation's oil profits into social programs across the region to further the leftward political shift he's leading in the United States' backyard.

Using his own Marine One helicopter, Bush will fly around this mountainous country, about the size of Tennessee, for a series of events meant to show that strong democratic reforms can improve the lives of Guatemalans.

He will visit with U.S. military medical team that offers basic health care — everything from giving vaccinations to helping build new health centers.

He'll tour Labradores Mayas, a thriving vegetable packing station in Chirijuyu that has received $350,000 in U.S. assistance since 2003 and is taking advantage of eased trade restrictions under the U.S.-Central America Free Trade Agreement.

Congress narrowly passed the trade pact last year and Bush wants lawmakers to approve of three similar ones with Colombia, Panama and Peru. He acknowledges that these are "tough votes," but failing to get congressional approval would blunt Bush's weeklong message that free trade and democratic reforms can help lift Latin Americans from poverty.

The vegetable packing station he'll visit was started in the early 1990s by an indigenous farmer named Mariano Canu. The association of 66 small farming families produces 95,000 heads of lettuce a week that are sold in Guatemala, Costa Rica,
El Salvador and Honduras. It employs 200 indigenous farmers and is one of the major vegetable suppliers for Wal-Mart Stores Inc.'s Central American supermarkets.

Guatemala's President Oscar Berger and his wife are going with the president and first lady
Laura Bush to Santa Cruz Balanya, a town of about 10,000 mostly indigenous Guatemalans, to stress the need for social justice and equality.

Nearly three-quarters of Guatemala's indigenous people, descendants of native Mayans, live in poverty. Many who have protested Bush's visit don't agree with U.S. immigration policy and believe current trade agreements between the countries have kept Guatemalans from rising out of poverty.

The distribution of income throughout Guatemala is lopsided. The richest 20 percent of the population receives two-thirds of all income. As a result, about 80 percent of the population lives in poverty, including more than 7 million who live in extreme poverty.

On Sunday, in Tecpan, more than 100 Mayan Indians protested Bush's visit, holding signs that read: "No more blood for oil." The group is angry that Bush will be visiting the sacred Iximche archaeological site, founded as the capital of the Kaqchiqueles kingdom before the Spanish conquest in 1524.

Mayan priests say they will purify the sacred archaeological site at Iximche to rid it of any "bad spirits" after Bush is there.

"That a person like (Bush) with the persecution of our migrant brothers in the United States, with the wars he has provoked is going to walk in our sacred lands is an offense for the Mayan people and their culture," said Juan Tiney, director of a Mayan non-governmental organization with close ties to Mayan religious and political leaders.

Back in the capital, Bush and Berger will talk about trade and immigration. The money that Guatemalans in the United States send back to the nation has become a significant part of the nation's economy.

* Email Story
* IM Story
* Printable View
* (What happened to the "Discuss" option?)

RECOMMEND THIS STORY

2007-03-10T21:35:00.000-08:00

ALLEGATIONS of intimidation

Fireman's relief as allegations are dropped

From the Bolton Evening News, first published Tuesday 13th Jun 2000.

ALLEGATIONS of intimidation which plunged an award-winning Bolton fireman into controversy have been dropped.

Fireman Graham Smith MBE - who is still awaiting the outcome of his own complaint against Bolton Station officer Peter Brandon for bullying - described his relief after the allegations were dropped.

The allegation involved a claimed conversation during a shift change. It was withdrawn days after it was made by Bolton Central Fireman Peter Hodgson. Speaking for the first time about the allegations, Mr Smith told the BEN: "It is obviously very upsetting to have an allegation of this type made against you.

"However, the allegations were unsubstantiated. The fact that it was withdrawn so quickly speaks for itself."

Fire bosses at Bolton Central station confirmed the complaint had now been settled.

Assistant Divisional Officer Shaun O'Donnell said: "Effectively the matter has been dealt with and is now closed. I'm not willing to comment on any particulars of the matter."

Mr Smith, who won the MBE award for his work helping Romanian orphans, now has to wait the outcome of his own grievance against the Bolton station officer.

As reported in the BEN, brigade bosses have upheld his complaints about reports penned by station officer Peter Brandon following an incident in December when Graham Smith took his helmet off on a fire call at Bolton Parish Church. The incident is due to go before the regional Fire Brigades' Union within the next week following a series of delays.

Mr Smith added: "I appreciate very much the overwhelming concern and moral support that so many of my colleagues have given me."

Archive Home
From the Bolton Evening News
http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk
© Newsquest Media Group 2000

Adsonline
Search for Jobs, Homes & Cars across Lancashire
Find a Job
Find a Home
Find a Car
Powered by Powered by Fish4
IMAGE MAGAZINE
Our style guide
More...
GRACE AND LACE
GRACE AND LACE
More...
LIFESTYLE MEDIA PACK
Advertising Information
More...
Newsquest Book an Ad online
Terms & Conditions
Privacy Policy © Copyright 2001-2007
Newsquest Media Group
A Gannett Company
This site is part of Newsquest's audited local newspaper network